My 1982 Celica took two screwdrivers, two wrenches, and a feeler guage set to adjust the valves.
GM and Drain Plugs
- Thread starter rpn453
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Oh, god, here we go again.
Originally Posted By: Dieselbob
Ever change heater hoses or the fuel filter on a 96'Accord? If not, try it and tell me they are easier to work on than domestic cars. In my opinion, THEY ALL SUCK AND ARE ALL DESIGNED BY IDIOTS! OK, I'll climb off my soapbox now.
Yup.
Ever change heater hoses or the fuel filter on a 96'Accord? If not, try it and tell me they are easier to work on than domestic cars. In my opinion, THEY ALL SUCK AND ARE ALL DESIGNED BY IDIOTS! OK, I'll climb off my soapbox now.
Yup.
Originally Posted By: Scdevon
Originally Posted By: thooks
World of difference between a GM and a Honda.
Not even in the same universe as each other.
High quality imports like Hondas are a breeze to work on. I respect that some poeple are domestic fans, but in my experience, many of them have never worked on imports side-by-side with domestics to see what a major PITA domestics are.
Just my opinion.
+1
I love working on Hondas. Not so much on my GM.
Originally Posted By: thooks
World of difference between a GM and a Honda.
Not even in the same universe as each other.
High quality imports like Hondas are a breeze to work on. I respect that some poeple are domestic fans, but in my experience, many of them have never worked on imports side-by-side with domestics to see what a major PITA domestics are.
Just my opinion.
+1
I love working on Hondas. Not so much on my GM.
Let's keep it real guys. There are some easy and some hard to service models in all the makers. Not one is better than the other. I can tell some extremely difficult Japanese cars to work on and some easy ones - same with GM and all the others. One hard to do repair on a car doesn't mean all the repairs are hard and that all the other makers cars are hard. That's just biased generalizations being made.
Yes, I have changed a fuel filter on a ('95) Accord...it is a complete PITA! I guess that's why the original filter was on there when I changed it at 142,000 miles! (I bought it at 133k). It took some ramps, two lights, a 20"x3/8" extension, a $15 MAC 14mm crow foot line wrench, and LOTS and LOTS of looking, figuring, cussing, getting up, down, etc. PITA!!!
Still, the modern Hondas are a breeze to maintain vs. a GM. Yes, I've had several GMs.
Still, the modern Hondas are a breeze to maintain vs. a GM. Yes, I've had several GMs.
Originally Posted By: thooks
Still, the modern Hondas are a breeze to maintain vs. a GM. Yes, I've had several GMs.
My buddy has a Honda minivan. He has to take the passenger side wheel off to get to the oil filter. Can not reach it from the back or the top.
My Isuzu/GM Axiom oil filter can be reached from the top of the engine compartment, or the bottom, after you take the crash plate off.
Still, the modern Hondas are a breeze to maintain vs. a GM. Yes, I've had several GMs.
My buddy has a Honda minivan. He has to take the passenger side wheel off to get to the oil filter. Can not reach it from the back or the top.
My Isuzu/GM Axiom oil filter can be reached from the top of the engine compartment, or the bottom, after you take the crash plate off.
Only car I've ever had to jack up to complete an oil change on is the Honda Civic. Can you guess why?
It's because the filter is at the back of the engine and you cannot reach it from the top!
The GM probably won't require a timing belt replacement or a valve adjustment, either.
It's because the filter is at the back of the engine and you cannot reach it from the top!
The GM probably won't require a timing belt replacement or a valve adjustment, either.
Yeah, how could I forget that stupid cover you have to take off to get to the oil fill/filter on the Trailblazer....[censored]???
I'm a big boy, I have to jack up anything to change the oil...Plus it allows me to get under the vehicle and take a look at everything to make sure it's ok. Big deal.
I'm a big boy, I have to jack up anything to change the oil...Plus it allows me to get under the vehicle and take a look at everything to make sure it's ok. Big deal.
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Only car I've ever had to jack up to complete an oil change on is the Honda Civic. Can you guess why?
It's because the filter is at the back of the engine and you cannot reach it from the top!
The GM probably won't require a timing belt replacement or a valve adjustment, either.
On his Odyssey filter can not be reached even when car is jacked up/ up on the ramps. Front right wheel has to come off.
Only car I've ever had to jack up to complete an oil change on is the Honda Civic. Can you guess why?
It's because the filter is at the back of the engine and you cannot reach it from the top!
The GM probably won't require a timing belt replacement or a valve adjustment, either.
On his Odyssey filter can not be reached even when car is jacked up/ up on the ramps. Front right wheel has to come off.
GM saved $.03 per axle when they eliminated the drain plug and went to synthetic. GM is run by bean counter's and MBA's that are not car guys! Every Toyota I own has drain plugs on everything that takes a fluid except the poser steering.
Originally Posted By: thooks
I'm a big boy, I have to jack up anything to change the oil...Plus it allows me to get under the vehicle and take a look at everything to make sure it's ok. Big deal.
Well, that's one way of looking at it. Another way is that everytime you jack a vehicle up, there's a chance that the jack could fail, etc.
Also, I do oil changes where I may not necessarily want to drag a 75-lb jack out to the car to raise it.
I'm a big boy, I have to jack up anything to change the oil...Plus it allows me to get under the vehicle and take a look at everything to make sure it's ok. Big deal.
Well, that's one way of looking at it. Another way is that everytime you jack a vehicle up, there's a chance that the jack could fail, etc.
Also, I do oil changes where I may not necessarily want to drag a 75-lb jack out to the car to raise it.
As far as drain plugs on an automatic, I don't really think they're necessary when you can unhook a cooler line, aim it at a bucket, start the engine, and run it till you start seeing bubbles.
Gets a much more complete fluid change that way than just draining the pan, too.
Gets a much more complete fluid change that way than just draining the pan, too.
Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
GM saved $.03 per axle when they eliminated the drain plug and went to synthetic. GM is run by bean counter's and MBA's that are not car guys!
That's the thing that frustrates me enough to make a thread. Sure, vehicles from every manufacturer have awkward or difficult maintenance or repair items due to design and packaging concerns, but I think they should at least try to make routine maintenance convenient. The tiny amount of money saved by not installing a drain plug is not worth it if you expect a vehicle to ever reach the mileage where the fluid should be changed.
However, of the six vehicles I listed, the three GM vehicles are all more convenient for oil changes than the others. It's almost hard to believe Honda decided that one should have to remove a wheel to change the oil! That wouldn't bother me in my current routine, as I do my oil changes at the same time as my seasonal tire changes, but not everyone can do their maintenance on that schedule.
GM saved $.03 per axle when they eliminated the drain plug and went to synthetic. GM is run by bean counter's and MBA's that are not car guys!
That's the thing that frustrates me enough to make a thread. Sure, vehicles from every manufacturer have awkward or difficult maintenance or repair items due to design and packaging concerns, but I think they should at least try to make routine maintenance convenient. The tiny amount of money saved by not installing a drain plug is not worth it if you expect a vehicle to ever reach the mileage where the fluid should be changed.
However, of the six vehicles I listed, the three GM vehicles are all more convenient for oil changes than the others. It's almost hard to believe Honda decided that one should have to remove a wheel to change the oil! That wouldn't bother me in my current routine, as I do my oil changes at the same time as my seasonal tire changes, but not everyone can do their maintenance on that schedule.
I'm betting that wheel can be turned to the left and the filter be accessed. I could probably reach the filter on the CR-V by doing this, versus reaching up while on the creeper.
I love to work on hondas because you have to work so little on them anyway....
Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
GM saved $.03 per axle when they eliminated the drain plug and went to synthetic. GM is run by bean counter's and MBA's that are not car guys! Every Toyota I own has drain plugs on everything that takes a fluid except the poser steering.
Which axles had drain plugs?? I used to work at a GM dealer and I don't recall any drain plugs on any axles, certainly not the very common 8.5" and 7.5/7.625" axles.
Most Japanese vehicles I've worked on have hotchkiss style axles, which need a drain plug otherwise you'd have to pull the differential pumpkin to drain the fluid (or suck it out). Most GM (and modern domestic's) use salisbury style axles which are super simple to pull the cover's off of. Even though it's slightly more work to pull a cover off, it takes less than 5 minutes with hand tools, it's not a big hassle IMO. I usually do a rear end inspection at this time anyway. Just be glad you not many cars have the worst of both. My Torino has a hotchkiss style axle (9" Ford) with no drain plug. I suck the fluid out to do a fluid change. The front diff on my buddy's old F-250 was the same way.
As far as petcocks, the only car I have owned without one (domestic or import) had a cheap aftermarket rad. All other's have had drains. I haven't owned a domestic with a tranny drain plug, and that would be nice just to make the job neater. You need to pull the pan on most domestics since they typically have filters that should be replaced too. I do recall some later 90's GM trucks with tranny drain plugs (not sure if they still have them), but they often seized, and to be honest it's just faster to pull the pan instead of waiting for the tranny to drain then pull the pan. All the techs in our shops didn't bother with the drains.
FWIW, our daily driver's our a Honda Civic and Chev Suburban. The Honda is easier for some repairs, the 'burb is easier for others. Both are easy to maintain, and both have been reliable and good vehicles.
GM saved $.03 per axle when they eliminated the drain plug and went to synthetic. GM is run by bean counter's and MBA's that are not car guys! Every Toyota I own has drain plugs on everything that takes a fluid except the poser steering.
Which axles had drain plugs?? I used to work at a GM dealer and I don't recall any drain plugs on any axles, certainly not the very common 8.5" and 7.5/7.625" axles.
Most Japanese vehicles I've worked on have hotchkiss style axles, which need a drain plug otherwise you'd have to pull the differential pumpkin to drain the fluid (or suck it out). Most GM (and modern domestic's) use salisbury style axles which are super simple to pull the cover's off of. Even though it's slightly more work to pull a cover off, it takes less than 5 minutes with hand tools, it's not a big hassle IMO. I usually do a rear end inspection at this time anyway. Just be glad you not many cars have the worst of both. My Torino has a hotchkiss style axle (9" Ford) with no drain plug. I suck the fluid out to do a fluid change. The front diff on my buddy's old F-250 was the same way.
As far as petcocks, the only car I have owned without one (domestic or import) had a cheap aftermarket rad. All other's have had drains. I haven't owned a domestic with a tranny drain plug, and that would be nice just to make the job neater. You need to pull the pan on most domestics since they typically have filters that should be replaced too. I do recall some later 90's GM trucks with tranny drain plugs (not sure if they still have them), but they often seized, and to be honest it's just faster to pull the pan instead of waiting for the tranny to drain then pull the pan. All the techs in our shops didn't bother with the drains.
FWIW, our daily driver's our a Honda Civic and Chev Suburban. The Honda is easier for some repairs, the 'burb is easier for others. Both are easy to maintain, and both have been reliable and good vehicles.
Some of the later trucks have them. Ive seen them when I would check the level during an oil change. It on the very bottom of the actual housing.
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