GFI wiring help

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dja4260

dja4260

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May 16, 2011
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Greenville, SC via Chicago, IL
Good morning,

I'm stumped and could help!

GFI outlet in bathroom doesn't work. The bathroom didn't have a GFI before, I'm putting one in.

I have two runs of wire into the box. Run 1 with a HOT (black wire) and neutral (white wire), Run 2 with a HOT (black wire) and neutral (white wire).

Both black wires indicate power.

I can't get the GFI to work, it goes into protect or the breaker pops.


I'm annoyed. Besides the obvious of calling a electrcian, any thoughts?







IMG_0838.webp
 
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If both black wires indicate power (from the same breaker) you have some real butchery behind the sheetrock.

As you presumably expect, one should be incoming and the other outgoing to feed the rest of the circuits.

There's a small chance the old outlet had its middle tabs broken and are 15 amp singles, so you could run two hair dryers simultaneously.
 
Originally Posted by eljefino
If both black wires indicate power (from the same breaker) you have some real butchery behind the sheetrock.

As you presumably expect, one should be incoming and the other outgoing to feed the rest of the circuits.

There's a small chance the old outlet had its middle tabs broken and are 15 amp singles, so you could run two hair dryers simultaneously.



Same breaker. I tested to make sure.
 
Originally Posted by eljefino
There's a small chance the old outlet had its middle tabs broken and are 15 amp singles, so you could run two hair dryers simultaneously.


I think this is the case.
 
GFI outlets must be grounded with a separate ground wire, that is actually grounded, to work properly.

If you connect the ground wire to the ground screw and one live circuit to the "LINE" side, and nothing on the "LOAD" side, the outlet should respond to pressing the test and reset buttons, and once it is reset, supply power to something plugged in. If it does not, the outlet unit itself is likely bad.

It's a regular single pole breaker, and with the breaker off, both black wires test dead, and with it on, both are hot?

If it is two circuits supplying the box you would have two breakers or a double pole breaker.
 
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Your post is scary. In the sense I fear for your safety and your family because this is very basic and answer should have been clear to you.
You never ever connect two separate live power lines to a standard outlet.

Im not an electrician but I am better then one. :o)

If you have 2 hot black wires and 2 neutral, cut and put wire caps on one line hot and neutral.

Connect ONLY 1 hot black and 1 neutral from the same line to the outlet. Its that simple, if not sure, have an electrician do this. I need to STRESS that my post is based on what I am reading in your post and my interpretation of it, do not take my advice consider it an idea that I know would work for me if I am reading your post right, consult an electrician.

(btw was just working in greenville med center installing security yesterday)

Ps, I assume the outlet you took out was a standard 110 outlet and not a 220 or you wouldnt be putting in a standard outlet.
 
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"The bathroom didn't have a GFI before, I'm putting one in."

I'm just asking because my bathroom didn't have a GFI outlet either just regular outlets and I was about to install GFCI outlets just like you're trying to do...but it is connected to a GFI outlet downstairs, I used an outlet GFCI checker to check for this and tracked down the GFI that was tripping during the test was down stairs. Have you checked to see if it wasn't connected to a GFI somewhere up the chain? If you are adding a GFI and there's already one up the chain they might be tripping each other...I'm not an electrician but this is what I read on the web so take it for what it's worth.
 
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OKAY, I overlooked a flipped breaker.

I have two circuits, each to their own breaker. So yes, a hot and neutral on each breaker to that single outlet. Everything on each breaker works (microwave on one, garage door opener and lights on other).


Now that I have that figured out and labeled, thoughts?
 
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Use one circuit to power the GFI outlet, isolate the other one (both its black and the white wire) by putting a wire nut on each wire.

You can't "split feed" a GFI like they did with a conventional outlet. It works for one circuit only.
 
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Originally Posted by mk378
Use one circuit to power the GFI outlet, isolate the other one (both its black and the white wire) by putting a wire nut on each wire.

You can't "split feed" a GFI like they did with a conventional outlet. It works for one circuit only.



I capped one circuit. I then hooked up an extra outlet (non GFI) and it's correct. I have a bad GFI....

Off to Lowes I go.
 
Originally Posted by dja4260
Originally Posted by mk378
Use one circuit to power the GFI outlet, isolate the other one (both its black and the white wire) by putting a wire nut on each wire.

You can't "split feed" a GFI like they did with a conventional outlet. It works for one circuit only.



I capped one circuit. I then hooked up an extra outlet (non GFI) and it's correct. I have a bad GFI....

Off to Lowes I go.



Just guessing you most likely fried it by hooking up two hot wires to it.
 
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by dja4260
Originally Posted by mk378
Use one circuit to power the GFI outlet, isolate the other one (both its black and the white wire) by putting a wire nut on each wire.

You can't "split feed" a GFI like they did with a conventional outlet. It works for one circuit only.



I capped one circuit. I then hooked up an extra outlet (non GFI) and it's correct. I have a bad GFI....

Off to Lowes I go.



Just guessing you most likely fried it by hooking up two hot wires to it.


+1 I'm not getting why there are 2 hot wires from 1 breaker.
 
So you still have a breaker in your box that's turned off, with a wire leading out of it, that goes god-knows-where, and powers some redundant stuff that you don't know what it is. Furthermore it seems you stumbled upon the "magic outlet" that some previous hack used to combine/backfeed two breakers into one, to cover for something not working. This remains an unacceptable condition.

Tag that breaker out, put tape over it, whatever.

Then yourself or an electrician should remove it, cap its former wire off, and put a blank in the box.
 
Originally Posted by dja4260
New GFI and it's tests properly. Frustrating, but done. Thank you for those who helped me out.

Glad it worked out it could have happened to anybody typically you don't expect to see 2 live wires from two separate Breakers feeding an outlet in the typical home.
 
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Originally Posted by eljefino
So you still have a breaker in your box that's turned off, with a wire leading out of it, that goes god-knows-where, and powers some redundant stuff that you don't know what it is. Furthermore it seems you stumbled upon the "magic outlet" that some previous hack used to combine/backfeed two breakers into one, to cover for something not working. This remains an unacceptable condition.

Tag that breaker out, put tape over it, whatever.

Then yourself or an electrician should remove it, cap its former wire off, and put a blank in the box.
Just throw some wire nuts on it. You never know when you might want another circuit for something. There's no need to destroy it, just make sure that it is terminated inside of a box and mark the breaker and leave it off. There's nothing dangerous about it.
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by dja4260
New GFI and it's tests properly. Frustrating, but done. Thank you for those who helped me out.

Glad it worked out it could have happened to anybody typically you don't expect to see 2 live wires from two separate Breakers feeding an outlet in the typical home.
It's not that rare for someone who does residential jobs on older houses. I'm just an Electrician though and you are "better than one".
 
Someone may have suggested this, but i would turn off every breaker but that one. Go through the house and see if anything else is hot, lights outlets etc.
 
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