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- Oct 14, 2023
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German lug bolts are better than ROW lug nuts, true?
- Thread starter The Artillerist
- Start date
More easily replaced, sure, but harder to mount the wheel on the hub, particularly on the side of the road, at night, and in the rain, ask me how I know.
So, every car has one of these in the tool kit by the jack - ABN Wheel Hanger Pin Set - 2 Pack Wheel Stud Alignment Guide Tool M14 x P1.5 Wheel Stud Pilot Pin Wheel Mounting Guide https://a.co/d/dSZRV9B
Also, Mercedes OEM lug bolts used to rust after about 1-2 years in service where I live. Lots of salt.
I bought titanium lug bolts as a replacement. About twice the cost of OEM Mercedes, but after 10 years, they still look great.
I am certain that the weight savings from those bolts cuts quite a bit off my 0-60 time…
So, every car has one of these in the tool kit by the jack - ABN Wheel Hanger Pin Set - 2 Pack Wheel Stud Alignment Guide Tool M14 x P1.5 Wheel Stud Pilot Pin Wheel Mounting Guide https://a.co/d/dSZRV9B
Also, Mercedes OEM lug bolts used to rust after about 1-2 years in service where I live. Lots of salt.
I bought titanium lug bolts as a replacement. About twice the cost of OEM Mercedes, but after 10 years, they still look great.
I am certain that the weight savings from those bolts cuts quite a bit off my 0-60 time…
I could swear my Kubota rear wheels have one or two alignment dowels or maybe fully threaded studs and the rest are bolts. From a service perspective, this makes more sense.
The video's total BS. He claims bolts are easier to replace because studs are pressed in. Ok, of course Captain Obvious.
But a replaceable stud means it's infinitely serviceable and thread damage NEVER means any more expense than a $3 stud ‐‐ ok, and maybe a $2 nut. If you damage the female threads of a wheel hub, you can weld it up and re-tap (only with a mill and DRO, please), try a thread insert (never heard of this on wheel retention fasteners) or replace the entire hub.
THAT SAID, THE WHOLE DISCUSSION IS DUMB. EITHER SYSTEM WORKS FINE. Let's argue Ford vs Chevy instead -- even that makes more sense.
The video's total BS. He claims bolts are easier to replace because studs are pressed in. Ok, of course Captain Obvious.
But a replaceable stud means it's infinitely serviceable and thread damage NEVER means any more expense than a $3 stud ‐‐ ok, and maybe a $2 nut. If you damage the female threads of a wheel hub, you can weld it up and re-tap (only with a mill and DRO, please), try a thread insert (never heard of this on wheel retention fasteners) or replace the entire hub.
THAT SAID, THE WHOLE DISCUSSION IS DUMB. EITHER SYSTEM WORKS FINE. Let's argue Ford vs Chevy instead -- even that makes more sense.
My wife's 2018 Cherokee has bolts and those stud alignment thingys that Astro14 linked seem pretty useful. I will order a set next time I do an Amazon order.
I've got the HF set and love them on KL Cherokees
The most frustrating way to attach a wheel.
Completely asinine.
Completely asinine.
I remember fighting one off my brother in laws VW Jetta. 2 different air impacts, breaker bars, heat, etc. No idea why it was frozen as much as it was but we fought it for 2 hours. I figured maybe it was a steel corroded to aluminum deal but the other 3 came off fine and the one that took forever didn't look very corroded at all once it was finally off.
One of life's great mysteries. Glad all my vehicles have lug nuts (Ive also ditched the McGard locking lugs too because it turns out no one really wants OEM wheels from such common vehicles)
One of life's great mysteries. Glad all my vehicles have lug nuts (Ive also ditched the McGard locking lugs too because it turns out no one really wants OEM wheels from such common vehicles)
My first vehicle ever was an '80 Audi 5k (Type 43) so I got used to it. The factory used to provide alignment dowels in the flat tire tool kit, but inevitably these were lost by previous owners in most cases.
The most annoying part to me is that without dummy studs the rotor can rotate independently, blocking the threaded holes of the hub. Some use the flat head screws to prevent this, assuming those are present by the time a used vehicle gets to a second owner. And then you have the pucker factor of hoping those screws come out for a brake job.
I agree I prefer studs but at the end of the day it's six of one......
I had this happen on my Audi, too. Back then I had no tools and after standing and jumping on the factory lug wrench as a healthy and portly teenager, I took it to my Firestone and even they struggled with the best air guns at the time. Ironically they wanted to blame me but they were the last ones to install those wheels (I used Firestone for all my tire needs back then)
Kestas
Staff member
I dismiss presentations that only present the wonderful aspects of a design. I prefer something that's balanced. There are pros and cons to both designs, as mentioned in the comments above.
Furthermore the video shows a cute little passenger car with relatively small and lightweight wheels.
There's a reason Kubota uses a combo: bolts alone would be impractical for field service. I realize someone is screaming a tractor isn't a passenger vehicle, but the same applies for most fullsize truck wheels these days, especially if they're steelies. They're simply too heavy to wrangle with no studs whatsoever.
Different?
Sure enough.
Better?
Not really.
Have had Germans that used lug bolts and they were okay. As a rule, the factory tool kit came with a plastic dowel you could insert into one of the threaded holes to hang the wheel from so that you could get a couple of the lug bolts started.
Sure enough.
Better?
Not really.
Have had Germans that used lug bolts and they were okay. As a rule, the factory tool kit came with a plastic dowel you could insert into one of the threaded holes to hang the wheel from so that you could get a couple of the lug bolts started.
This very common with euro cars especially the ones with 1 piece lug bolts. A weighted impact socket eg IR power sockets do the job. When the 1 piece is replaced with a 2 piece lug bolt (not always possible) there are no more problems, they must be lubed when installing.
There are definitely pros and cons to both lug nuts and lug bolts.
I've had to have my share of wheel studs replaced, primarily because of overzealous service techs at Discount Tire. Replacing studs are harder on some cars than others. A definite disadvantage to the lug nut/stud design.
My Mercedes and BMW both use lug bolts. There is no question that it is more difficult to mount a wheel onto a car with lug bolts. I also have wheel hanger pins, but with experience, I've developed a method to hold the wheel in place while putting the first bolt on. Since it takes me longer to put the hanger pin in, hang the wheel, install the first bolt, then remove the hanger pin, than just hold the wheel up and put the first bolt on, I rarely use the hanger pin any more,
I have a slight preference towards lug bolts. But I can see where others may prefer the lug nut/stud design. I do agree with @Kestas. I don't like videos that only present one viewpoint.
I've had to have my share of wheel studs replaced, primarily because of overzealous service techs at Discount Tire. Replacing studs are harder on some cars than others. A definite disadvantage to the lug nut/stud design.
My Mercedes and BMW both use lug bolts. There is no question that it is more difficult to mount a wheel onto a car with lug bolts. I also have wheel hanger pins, but with experience, I've developed a method to hold the wheel in place while putting the first bolt on. Since it takes me longer to put the hanger pin in, hang the wheel, install the first bolt, then remove the hanger pin, than just hold the wheel up and put the first bolt on, I rarely use the hanger pin any more,
I have a slight preference towards lug bolts. But I can see where others may prefer the lug nut/stud design. I do agree with @Kestas. I don't like videos that only present one viewpoint.
I do like studs for ease of swapping wheels. After owning german cars for a few years though, you master the art of holding the wheel up with your feet while you line it up and get the first couple bolts in. Wheel hangers and hubcentric wheels make it bearable.
Studs get bent or broken. Less common on factory press-fit studs, but it's a miserable repair. On my Golf, I replace them every year or two since that's what you do on a track car with thread-in studs. Trustworthy m14 studs are at least $5/stud. Wheel bolts also need to be replaced every couple years, and it's just way easier to not deal with removing 20 studs periodically, which is why I'll likely go back to wheel bolts next year. Or next time I change my rear rotors, which is a lot easier without studs in the way.
Technically a wheel bolt is less prone to failure than these thread-in studs but that is part of why they're replaced regularly. Most stud kits I've used have had issues with coatings, stripped threads, or slight machining issues that damaged wheels while moving past the threads. There are very high quality options such as MSI, but $16/stud is literally an extra track fee per set.
To me the main reason I've had studs is actually just being able to swap wheel spacers without tracking down the matching sets of wheel bolts. OP's video is mostly cheap engagement bait, but hey, we're engaged.
Studs get bent or broken. Less common on factory press-fit studs, but it's a miserable repair. On my Golf, I replace them every year or two since that's what you do on a track car with thread-in studs. Trustworthy m14 studs are at least $5/stud. Wheel bolts also need to be replaced every couple years, and it's just way easier to not deal with removing 20 studs periodically, which is why I'll likely go back to wheel bolts next year. Or next time I change my rear rotors, which is a lot easier without studs in the way.
Technically a wheel bolt is less prone to failure than these thread-in studs but that is part of why they're replaced regularly. Most stud kits I've used have had issues with coatings, stripped threads, or slight machining issues that damaged wheels while moving past the threads. There are very high quality options such as MSI, but $16/stud is literally an extra track fee per set.
To me the main reason I've had studs is actually just being able to swap wheel spacers without tracking down the matching sets of wheel bolts. OP's video is mostly cheap engagement bait, but hey, we're engaged.
My brother had a 1991 Chevrolet Lumina Eurosport 3.1 which must've been a base model.
It had studs and lug nuts which were 4" long; obviously to accommodate any future alloy wheel Chevy might think of.
They were rusty. Running the nuts along the unnecessary length had to create heat and stress.
The first thing I did for that car was wire wheel the studs and 'employ Anti-Seize'.
Those studs really were comically long.
I've owned bolted wheel vehicles for >20 years and have managed without the "wheel hanger pins".
They were always psycho-expensive....to the point of being insulting.
The ones linked to in post #2 are the very first I've seen which are acceptably priced.
Frankly, they should be cheaper as they are so, so simple.
I do realize, 'they gotta charge you something' <<an economics lesson from Dear Old Dad.
It had studs and lug nuts which were 4" long; obviously to accommodate any future alloy wheel Chevy might think of.
They were rusty. Running the nuts along the unnecessary length had to create heat and stress.
The first thing I did for that car was wire wheel the studs and 'employ Anti-Seize'.
Those studs really were comically long.
I've owned bolted wheel vehicles for >20 years and have managed without the "wheel hanger pins".
They were always psycho-expensive....to the point of being insulting.
The ones linked to in post #2 are the very first I've seen which are acceptably priced.
Frankly, they should be cheaper as they are so, so simple.
I do realize, 'they gotta charge you something' <<an economics lesson from Dear Old Dad.
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In terms of easy of use, I like wheel bolts more. I had two wheel studs come loose on a 2022 Corolla. As I was taking the wheels off with my impact gun (brushed Ryobi, so no that powerful) the vibrations loosened two of the wheel studs. One on the front left wheel and the other on the right rear. (Before anybody asks, it wasn't an issue with over torquing. The lug nuts are open ended so the ends of the studs became quite rusty over the winter. Switching to acorn style wheel nuts going forward). Managed to get the front one sorted, but I had to take the rear brake caliper and caliper bracket off to get the rear stud back in.
Another thing is that if you live somewhere where they salt the roads, it's much easier to clean the wheel hubs. Brake clean, some quick wire wheel action, some more brake clean, a bit of copper anti seize, and you're good to go. With wheel studs they're always in the way and you're forced to use those tooth brush looking wire brushes and maneuver a rag around the studs in order to clean any crud off.
I don't have any problems lining up the wheels. Holding the wheel in place with one or two feet does the trick. But I've always been dealing with car sized tires. I can imagine all of that becoming a bit more difficult once you get into SUV territory.
Another thing is that if you live somewhere where they salt the roads, it's much easier to clean the wheel hubs. Brake clean, some quick wire wheel action, some more brake clean, a bit of copper anti seize, and you're good to go. With wheel studs they're always in the way and you're forced to use those tooth brush looking wire brushes and maneuver a rag around the studs in order to clean any crud off.
I don't have any problems lining up the wheels. Holding the wheel in place with one or two feet does the trick. But I've always been dealing with car sized tires. I can imagine all of that becoming a bit more difficult once you get into SUV territory.
Brake jobs are easier with wheel bolts and even easier with fixed calipers.
JHZR2
Staff member
Since I bought the ML320 my thoughts on lug bolts have shifted.
I have a lot of Mercedes cars. Never minded the bolts. Never really used the screw-in alignment post either.
Maybe I’m getting old and weak, or these 19” wheels are just really heavy, but it’s a PAIN to get those wheels on, even with the alignment post.
Maybe I really need two to hold the wheel on. I’ll have to try that.
Only my w126 and w164 vehicles have rusty bolt issues. I need to get some Ti bolts too. Source??
