German Castrol in Honda K24 engine?

[camarobuff67]

Hi - I have a 2004 Honda Accord 4-cyl and am wondering if anyone has tried German Castrol oil in a Honda k24 engine. It is getting time to change the oil, and I would like to use a top quality synthetic oil. The low cold viscosity appeals to me because I will be driving in Michigan during the winter with this car. The car has seen Mobil 1 for the first 35,000 miles, and Pennzoil Platinum until 75,000. I maintain my car like I am going to keep it forever (which I plan to).

Does anyone have feedback from running German Castrol in the k24 engines?

Thanks.

 

[Johnny]

Are you running 5W-20 now? The GC is a great product but it's a heavy 30wt.

 

[addyguy]

I'd stick with Mobil 1 Or Platinum.

GC is certainly a great oil, BUT I've read here that Honda engines really 'prefer' thinner oils, and running something as thick (12.1 cst) as GC 'may' make the engine sluggish.

20 weight oil will protect the engine for as long as you want to keep it.....lots and lots of used oil analysis to show this.....

 

[camarobuff67]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
Are you running 5W-20 now? The GC is a great product but it's a heavy 30wt.


So far, I have been running 10w30 in the summer and 5w30 in the winter.

 

[HTSS_TR]

The best source is the owner manual, what is recommended ? xW20 or xW30 ? Either case, I would use thin 0Wxx specially for the winter. GC is very thick W30 oil.

 

[Audi Junkie]

It is not thin at all. I have enough random samples of oil here for Freezer Testing, and GC is far from thin at 0f. Mobil 1 0w30 is not even that thin, I have it in right next to some Pennzoil 5w30 SUV Blend and there is not much difference at all.

 

[Best F100]

Camarobuff67,
Well, I am the contrarian, and take the oposing side to most of the other positions. I would go ahead and run the German Castrol - assuming you don't result in a significant fuel mileage penalty from running the thicker oil. So engines do, some don't. I can't speak specifically for the K24 engine.
My reasoning:

1) Many users (not all), report a slightly better UAO's (lower iron numbers), using GC who have previously used 5/Mobil 1 10w30.
(I am talking just Japanese 4 cylinder engines, here). On one of the Subaru forums I looked at, some owners with turbocharged engines wound up with spun bearings running Mobil 1 5W30. Was the oil too thin for the application? Coincidence?, Law of Averages? Who knows?

I believe, Patman had good results using GC in a Civic, if I remember.

2) Many users (not all), notice their engines to run quieter at idle using GC. I have a 3 cylinder, liquid cooled, Daihatsu engine in a Cushman Police Truckster (former NYPD Meter Maid Parking enforcement vehicle). With just 3 cylinders, by nature, it tends have a noticable vibration at idle. After running Mobil 1Racing 0W30 (which is a thin 10.3 cst@100C), I ran GC (Green version) which is 12 cst@100C. It was as if, someone added a 4th cylinder, noise and vibration wise. I am sitting on about 30 quarts of both oils (bought at a clearance discount of $2 - $4/ qt.) Guess which one I will be using up first? By the way, I live down the road from you in Ann Arbor.

 

[ekpolk]

I'll be the counter-contrarian! I think that's a double-negative, but anyway, as much as I've liked GC, I'd pass on it for your application, except perhaps for purely experimental purposes. If you do decide to run a fill, observe carefully, and don't stock up until you've formed some impressions. I now find myself in the position of having a lot of green GC on hand, but no cars left that are well suited to it (though it runs fine in the wife's Avalon, and the Prius my son now drives, but not recommended for either). GC is a fine oil, but it's almost a 40 wt, and as our used oil analysis show, to say nothing of members' driving impressions, the modern Hondas just don't need such a thick oil.

 

[zulu]

Correct... Honda's generally prefer a 20W oil. The only Honda engines that spec a higher 30W are the high-rpm VTECs. My old K20 burned through Mobil 1 and PP. GC was the only thick enough 30W to stop the consumption.

I'd personally run a 0 or 5W-20. The lower RPM K20/24s don't need a heavier oil.

 

[buster]

I tried it and it made the 2.4L noticeably more sluggish. It's possible it was psychological though but probably not. I still have Mobil 1 5w30 in the Accord now, and while that is 11.2 cSt's, the HT/HS is only 3.09 vs 3.6 for GC...> more mpg with the Mobil 1.

 

[Audi Junkie]

I just got my best mpg ever using Havoline 5w-20. 230 miles from a 1/2 tank vs normal 200. 33 verses usual 29.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: Best F100



I believe, Patman had good results using GC in a Civic, if I remember.




I did get good wear numbers in my wife's 2000 Civic (1.6L 106hp engine) with GC, however her engine definitely feels better now that I've switched it to 5w20. The wear numbers with GTX 5w20 are quite good too, and now that GC is almost $9 a liter here (when I stocked up in the past I got a ton of it for $5 or less) I am enjoying the lower cost of a conventional (I often find the 4.4L jug on sale from $11 to $13 here)

GC is a great oil, but I would never recommend it for an engine that calls for 5w20. It's a heck of a lot thicker at 40c for example (close to 70cst, while a lot of 5w20s are 50cst or less)

 

[Jeffdc5]

Gc works great in my k20a2 I have alot of modifications, standalone fuel management with a lot of air fuel tuning ignition tuning cam angle tuning. My engine is really quiet with Gc I rev the engine up to 8800 rpm at least once a day and I don't burn any oil, I change it every 5k. My gas milage is pretty good considering I only do city driving with my commute I only use 5 gallons a week. The Honda 4 cyl cars will always feel slugish lots oh horsepower with no torque.

 

[camarobuff67]

Thanks everyone for the replies so far.

I am guess I am still torn over which oil to run in my car. It really should not be this much of a problem, but I find it fun learning about the small details that make one thing better than another.

My main debate is which oil should I choose to run for the winter, and see if I can stick with that same oil year around. I have been looking at German Castrol, and Mobil 1 0w30 oil. I guess the advantage I see with GC is that although I may lose some fuel economy, I know the engine is getting superior protection when warm, and decent protection when cold. Is this a correct assumption? On paper, the GC looks like a superior oil. The specs for both oils are below:

German Castrol Mobil 10w30
Viscosity 100*C 12.1 11.0
Viscosity 40*C 72 63.1
HTHS 3.6 2.99
TBN 10.3 8.5
MRV ??? 11,100

ACEA A3, B3, B4 A1, B1
API SL SM
ILSAC GF3 GF4

I guess I have also a question as to why not to use a heavier weight oil. I have also read that the engines are more sluggish with the thicker oils. What happens in Europe and Asia where thicker oils are recommended? Do the cars just all feel sluggish?

Thanks for all the help everyone!

 

[Audi Junkie]

Try a 5w20 conventional and you won't want anything else.

 

[Best F100]

Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: Best F100



I believe, Patman had good results using GC in a Civic, if I remember.




I did get good wear numbers in my wife's 2000 Civic (1.6L 106hp engine) with GC, however her engine definitely feels better now that I've switched it to 5w20. The wear numbers with GTX 5w20 are quite good too, and now that GC is almost $9 a liter here (when I stocked up in the past I got a ton of it for $5 or less) I am enjoying the lower cost of a conventional (I often find the 4.4L jug on sale from $11 to $13 here)

GC is a great oil, but I would never recommend it for an engine that calls for 5w20. It's a heck of a lot thicker at 40c for example (close to 70cst, while a lot of 5w20s are 50cst or less)



Not so fast. (I had to get the last word on this one).
Question 1) Were your wear numbers actually better with the thicker GC or the thinner, cheaper 5W20? I don't have them in front of me. It really doesn't matter to me, but after all, the guy said he want to "keep his Honda forever".

Question 2) Is it better for the driver to "feel happy" because the engine is more "rev happy with a thinner oil", OR is it better for the engine to "Be happy" because it is wearing at a slower rate?

There is a recent thread asking "Is 0W30 safe for an engine spec'd for 5W20? In it, a guy named Jim 5, in Calgary, has a higher mileage Acura 3.2 TL which calls for 5W20. He ran Mobil 1 0W20, Pennzoil 5W20 and Esso XD-3 0W30 (which is almost a 40 wt oil). Well, long story short, the thicker Esso XD-3 0W30 was hands, down the appropriate oil (on a wear numbers basis). Someone wish to explain why? Try EPA fuel mandates calling for 5W20.

We all have taken high school science laboratory classes, where we performed a science experiment. We think we knew what the obvious outcome would be. When it did not happen, we had to sit down and explain "what went wrong". So I say, keep an open mind, unless you are suffering from a fuel economy penalty of using a thicker oil.

I rest my case. Case closed.

 

[Best F100]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
I'll be the counter-contrarian! I think that's a double-negative, but anyway, as much as I've liked GC, I'd pass on it for your application, except perhaps for purely experimental purposes. If you do decide to run a fill, observe carefully, and don't stock up until you've formed some impressions. I now find myself in the position of having a lot of green GC on hand, but no cars left that are well suited to it (though it runs fine in the wife's Avalon, and the Prius my son now drives, but not recommended for either). GC is a fine oil, but it's almost a 40 wt, and as our used oil analysis show, to say nothing of members' driving impressions, the modern Hondas just don't need such a thick oil.


I counter your counter contrarian position. Corvettes don't need anything thicker than the manufacturer's Mobil 1 5W30 either. But what do you say, or do if you can "stumble" upon a thicker oil that gives you a better UAO (like GC or Delvac 1) than what the manufacturer specifies?

There is a recent thread in this section asking "is 0W30 safe for an engine specifying 5W20? In it, a guy in Calary, named Jim 5 has a higher mileage Acura 3.2 TL. Manufacturer also calls for 5W20. He ran Mobil 1 0W20, Pennzoil 5W20 and Esso XD-3 0W30 (which is almost a 40 wt oil). In a nutshell, the Esso XD-3 0W30 was clearly the appropriate oil on a wear numbers basis. I'm not saying this will always turn out this way, but just keep an open mind, and find out what is best - not what the EPA says is best. You can't argue with the numbers. They are what they are. I really think Havoline 5W30 is the best you can use (on a numbers basis). Just change it more frequently than a synthetic oil

By the way, I'll take some of the Green GC you don't know where to put. Be sure to brush the dust off those bottles before you package them and send them to me in Michigan.

I'm done. Check Mate!

 

[Scout1]

This summer I've had GC in the same car as you have, 2004 2.4L 4 cyl Honda, and I've got nearly 5k miles on the oil. I will probably change it out soon and do a used oil analysis on it just to see what's going on...(I know... 5k is a waste of money on synth, but for years I used to change my oil at 2k intervals, so this is a long run for me!)

I don't notice less responsiveness from the motor compared to the 5w20 I ran during most of the warranty period or the various 5w30's I've tried in this car. I still get over 31 mpg driving it to work and back which has been pretty consistent for the life of the car. And the GC makes the motor very smooth and quiet.

So go ahead with the GC... it works fine!

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: Best F100



Not so fast. (I had to get the last word on this one).
Question 1) Were your wear numbers actually better with the thicker GC or the thinner, cheaper 5W20? I don't have them in front of me. It really doesn't matter to me, but after all, the guy said he want to "keep his Honda forever".




The wear numbers between GC and GTX 5w20 were very close in my wife's Honda. Here is a quick look:

GC for 5000 miles

Iron 8
Lead 2
Al 2
Copper 1
Chromium 0
Nickel 0
Silver 0
Silicon 4


GTX 5w20 for 4000 miles

Iron 7
Lead 1
Al 4
Copper 1
Chromium 1
Nickel 0
Silver 0
Silicon 10

 

[06VtecV6]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
I'd stick with Mobil 1 Or Platinum.

GC is certainly a great oil, BUT I've read here that Honda engines really 'prefer' thinner oils, and running something as thick (12.1 cst) as GC 'may' make the engine sluggish.

20 weight oil will protect the engine for as long as you want to keep it.....lots and lots of used oil analysis to show this.....


Listen to this poster about honda's wanting thinner oils..you don't need a thick oil in a Honda engine. I have a 2006 J30 and the car loves thin oil so I run a thin 5w-20 and it loves it. I think you are going the wrong direction by going thicker. You will realize it when you put it in and you car feels heavier which equals sluggishness from the oil pump having to work harder. The passages within the engine are so tight that the car communicates this issue to you in the form of less then stellar thrust. Try Motorcraft 5w-20 for one OCI and if you're disappointed, I will be shocked.