so who is still buying "synthetic" "PAO" Mobil 1 and what are you paying for the priviledge?
GeorgeCLS "TESTING" Mobil 1
- Thread starter buster
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Big kudos to George for stepping up to increase the knowledge base. And many thanks to all the others in the assists.
Though it may be popular to accuse EM of selling out, I don't see how they could do otherwise as a company. To allow their competitors to label their products as synthetic, get the same price as true synthetic, and pay less to manufacture, thus reaping much more profit, and not do the same....it's just bad business.
I'm disappointed, too, that I have to seek out replacements for the oils I've been so happy with for so many years. It's a lot like when we realized the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause weren't real anymore.
But, them's are the breaks.
Though it may be popular to accuse EM of selling out, I don't see how they could do otherwise as a company. To allow their competitors to label their products as synthetic, get the same price as true synthetic, and pay less to manufacture, thus reaping much more profit, and not do the same....it's just bad business.
I'm disappointed, too, that I have to seek out replacements for the oils I've been so happy with for so many years. It's a lot like when we realized the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause weren't real anymore.
But, them's are the breaks.
Me. $22 for 5 quart jug at Walmart.$4.40 a quart at that price. Standard Mobil 1 5W30 which was NOT tested by TomNJ.Reset the OLM and not worry about it until it reaches 0, then change it with the same oil. The "Mobil 1 is group3" hysteria has not struck me.More important things to worry about...
George: The education, certifications, background and experience you bring to BITOG IS meaningful to many, including me. The 'initials' following my name are MEd., which has nothing to do with lubrication...but it took a lot of time and effort to EARN that degree. From that perspective, I know from whence you come.
I'm almost 62 years of age and I've maintained and repaired vehicles for 45 years. Currently, I maintain 5. Yet, I've learned from you. Two examples are: 1. Relieve pressure from a grease gun to prevent bleeding; and 2. Don't use moly-based grease in driveshaft universal joints. Actually, #2 was an affirmation of my own experiences: I've replaced several worn-out U-joints over the years. With the exception of a Plymouth (no zerks), the bad joints were all Ford joints, and I'd used moly-based grease in them. The needle bearings flat turned to dry, gritty powder.
Insofar as Mobil 1 is concerned, I don't give a hoot about the current foumulation issue. Exxon-Mobil is not about to risk Mobil 1's reputation to save a few cents. It only makes sense that they'd go up on the price rather than risk the quality of the final product.
Keep up the great work and keep on educating those of us who find you to be very, very creditable.
I'm almost 62 years of age and I've maintained and repaired vehicles for 45 years. Currently, I maintain 5. Yet, I've learned from you. Two examples are: 1. Relieve pressure from a grease gun to prevent bleeding; and 2. Don't use moly-based grease in driveshaft universal joints. Actually, #2 was an affirmation of my own experiences: I've replaced several worn-out U-joints over the years. With the exception of a Plymouth (no zerks), the bad joints were all Ford joints, and I'd used moly-based grease in them. The needle bearings flat turned to dry, gritty powder.
Insofar as Mobil 1 is concerned, I don't give a hoot about the current foumulation issue. Exxon-Mobil is not about to risk Mobil 1's reputation to save a few cents. It only makes sense that they'd go up on the price rather than risk the quality of the final product.
Keep up the great work and keep on educating those of us who find you to be very, very creditable.
buster, you're the one that needs to get over it. I only posted in those threads because your kindergarten level of analysis is almost always flawed and may lead newbies astray. Never have I seen someone use so much marketing drivel and hearsay as a basis of their argument.
427, thats fine that you hold that opinion, as I do not have the time or tools to do scientific testing of my own. But let me ask you, where is your analysis? I havn't seen ONE UOA from you and you act like you are some great scientist. You copy/past spec sheets from various websites.
99% of us only have used oil analysis to back up anything scientifically and even then it's flawed due to repeatability and controlled variables.
For 4 years now I have been a proponent of:
1. 20wt oils. (going against the majority on this one)
2. Mobil 1 as a good quality PAO synthetic
The only oil I've questioned repeatedly is Redline, and I still do. Rather then rely on one BITOG member's opinion, I seek multiple opinions from multiple sources. A much better way than relying on one individual.
I've posted many many articles/quotes about different oils and chemistries. I don't have a chemical engineering degree and I don't believe you do either. The only way to get sound information for people like us is to use used oil analysis and to get opinions from others.
Falling for marketing would be believing in the 4-ball wear test. Who has refuted that more than me? Nobody. Or how about "Redline uses a POE base and has moly so it's superior". Who has questioned RL's ability to formulate a street oil more than I have? Then there is the whole "moly cures all" talk that I have refused to engage in.
As long as oils change formulation, my opinion will change.
Right now I think Amsoil's additive package is better than Mobil 1. They were using Mg for so long with high levels of ZDDP. Hardly cutting edge. How about the people who said "boron and moly can't replace ZDDP". The person who said that sold Amsoil. Things change....
Bottom line is you can't cherry pick my comments and assume that I use marketing as a back up for my viewpoints. If I were to fall for marketing, I'd be using Amsoil bc of their 4-ball wear test, PP bc of their clingy molecules or Royal Purple for the Hp gains.
99% of us only have used oil analysis to back up anything scientifically and even then it's flawed due to repeatability and controlled variables.
For 4 years now I have been a proponent of:
1. 20wt oils. (going against the majority on this one)
2. Mobil 1 as a good quality PAO synthetic
The only oil I've questioned repeatedly is Redline, and I still do. Rather then rely on one BITOG member's opinion, I seek multiple opinions from multiple sources. A much better way than relying on one individual.
I've posted many many articles/quotes about different oils and chemistries. I don't have a chemical engineering degree and I don't believe you do either. The only way to get sound information for people like us is to use used oil analysis and to get opinions from others.
Falling for marketing would be believing in the 4-ball wear test. Who has refuted that more than me? Nobody. Or how about "Redline uses a POE base and has moly so it's superior". Who has questioned RL's ability to formulate a street oil more than I have? Then there is the whole "moly cures all" talk that I have refused to engage in.
As long as oils change formulation, my opinion will change.
Right now I think Amsoil's additive package is better than Mobil 1. They were using Mg for so long with high levels of ZDDP. Hardly cutting edge. How about the people who said "boron and moly can't replace ZDDP". The person who said that sold Amsoil. Things change....
Bottom line is you can't cherry pick my comments and assume that I use marketing as a back up for my viewpoints. If I were to fall for marketing, I'd be using Amsoil bc of their 4-ball wear test, PP bc of their clingy molecules or Royal Purple for the Hp gains.
Gentlemen, as a long time user of ex-Mobil 1, I too frequent the threads that pertain to them. I tend to be leary of the company now, as current evidence seems to suggest they have gone group III while charging what I consider a group IV price. I visit these threads to see if there is new information. Information such as GeorgeCLS will be providing soon. I would like to hold all opinions until all the data is in, but that is difficult do when you are due an OCI. A person must make his best judgement call at that point. My call is to go away from ex-Mobil 1 until/unless recent tests, seen on this forum, can be dispelled or repeated. So until that time, color me skeptical when it comes to this company. There are no good guys or bad guys, just folks who are interested in oil.
Cherry picked your quote, Booss, sorry, but it gets to the main point. I feel the same way. Was at Advanced Auto today, they're selling 4quart jugs of SuperSyn for 24.68 a jug. Now, I'm sorry folks, but $6.17/quart? In a jug? And they won't disclose what it is? If folks are buying it (doesn't look like it to me, the stack is gathering dust) good for them, but not for me. XOM is nuts. Everyone else on the oil-producing planet is cutting deals except XOM.
They flatter themselves and their product.
Severely..
Blah, blah, blah. You mention all those meaningless debates you participate in like it proves your technical prowess. What a joke.
Where ever I can, I do try to back up my positions with factual data and/or sound engineering and logical analysis. The reality is, if I told you the dimensions of the cam lobes on my 7M-GE you wouldn't know what to do with it. Other credible information such as the SAE technical papers has Intellectual Property Rights and much the other information I'm privy to is proprietary. You want first hand credible data? Go to the SAE website and get an account. I doubt you'd understand a fraction of it.
I'll stack my three science degrees and 25+ years as an engineer, engine builder and racer against anything you have to offer. You're the BITOG equivalent of the court jester.
P.S. Your searching skills have a lot to be desired too.
Right on que with the drivel.
buster and 427Z06, so, er, exactly what are either of you saying that has anything to do with George trying to get a lab to provide secondary data to Tom's info?
I appreciate both of your contributions to this website, and I'm just a regular schmoe around here, but, please, take this to PM's...this isn't what Bob had in mind I don't think when he started this site...
Chuck
I appreciate both of your contributions to this website, and I'm just a regular schmoe around here, but, please, take this to PM's...this isn't what Bob had in mind I don't think when he started this site...
Chuck
What are you, the milk monitor?
Ahhh the insecurities surface....the flaunting of the degrees. I was waiting for that one. I have a degree in Economics, thats it. Never claimed to be an engineer.
Your engineering skills lack big time but I'll give you a pass being you live in the state of Texas which has some of the worst public schools in the nation.
Building Go-Karts and racing them doesn't mean you know about oil.
The two above posts demonstrate the value of your comments, Chuck.
No word from the lab regarding the GC test results... Standing by.....
George
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