Generic replacements for Honda ATF-Z1

[Hokiefyd]

Once again, I am looking at generic replacements for ATF-Z1. I have been staunchly against generic fluids in the past, but two things have me looking at other options.

1) My local Honda dealer actually doesn't use the Honda ATF unless on request. They use Valvoline's MaxLife DEX/MERC, the one that apparently meets the requirements of ATF-Z1 according to the bottle. They're a Valvoline shop, so that doesn't really surprise me, but it must work well enough (and be defensible enough in a warranty claim situation) for the dealer to be using it.

2) My CR-V's transmission has always shifted nice and crisp, even erring on the side of too crisp. I like the firm shifts. The MDX's transmission has always shifted very smooth, erring on the side of too smooth. The more I get fresh ATF-DW1 into it, the more I think I'd rather have a slightly firmer shift. From what I've read, folks using the Valvoline product report a firmer shift in the Honda transmissions, right? I never connected the CR-V's crisper shifting with the fact that the dealer used the Valvoline product, but I guess it makes sense now (my in-law's 2011 CR-V, with ATF-DW1, shifts more like our MDX does).

I was surfing the oil aisle today and saw the Castrol Transmax Import Multi-Vehicle product. Interestingly, and unlike Valvoline, they have a separate "Dex/Merc" product marketed towards domestic multi-vehicle applications. The Import Multi-Vehicle product does say on the bottle that it also meets the requirements of Ford MERCON, DEXRON III and older, etc. Is Castrol simply bottling two different bottles of the same product, or is the import version really different from the domestic version? The Import version seems to meet DEX/MERC *and* some other import applications (like Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, etc). The Domestic version seems to only meet the DEX/MERC requirements.

Has anyone used both the Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc and the Castrol Transmax Import Multi-Vehicle fluids in the same Honda automatic? Is any one appreciably better than the other? Castrol's product was $5.88/qt at Walmart, which I don't think is much different in price than Valvoline's product (and maybe even a little more expensive).

I know a lot of folks like the Valvoline fluid in their Hondas, and that, combined with knowing that the local dealer uses it also, might convince me to use it. But I'm curious about this Castrol offering as well.

 

[dave123]

Redline D4

 

[BrianWC]

I've used both the Castrol High Mileage and the Valvoline Maxlife in my CR-V. No problems that I'm aware of. Can't say I could tell a difference either way.

 

[martinq]

I would use Valvoline MaxLive Dex/Merc if I'm on-the-cheap, or Red Line D6 for all-the-glory. I have no complaints with MaxLife but would always prefer D6 if costs allow.

I would consider D4 (a non-shear 7cSt fluid) too heavy for typical use that does not see excessive fluid temps and/or high-loads. D6 (non-shear 6cSt) is perfect for most applications and temperatures and is capable of severe-duty.

Also, have a look at Mobil 1 ATF as it's specs and history look good. I don't know what this fluid will shear-down to though.

 

[iskerbibel]

I got tired of paying for Honda ATF. Had a stash of Allison Transynd sitting around. So that's what I put in the wife's 2004 Accord last time I did a drain & fill. It's been several months, and it shifts exactly the same as it always has.

So I'm pretty convinced that you can put in just about any Dex III or the like, and it will work fine.

 

[ARB1977]

I currently using DW1 but what about Amsoil Universal Atf. It met the oil spec but doesn't mention DW1 spec. Id like to use Amsoil since i use it in my Tacoma.

 

[artificialist]

I have worked in places that used Valvoline's oil that is recommended for Honda ATF Z1. No customer was ever disappointed with the performance of it.

That in mind, if you want the absolute best oil, I would use Amsoil.

 

[iskerbibel]

Personally I think Amsoil is ridiculously over-priced for what you get. But I think it would work as well as any DexIII.

 

[PandaBear]

I've used both MaxLife and Import MV, and my experience is that MaxLife shift is firmer than Import MV, and its viscosity is also lower (thinner).

So, I think for your prefeRence Max Life will work better

 

[Tones]

I think I will be using my stash of Amsoil for my Civic. I thought about going with DW-1, but I'm not comfortable with the viscocity difference long term.

 

[bourne]

I have Maxlife in an 05 civic and DW-1 in my TL , I prefer the firm shifts of Maxlife over the smooth almost springy shifts of
the DW-1 . Granted different trans in both cars but Im just commenting on the difference in shift quality.

Once my warranty is over , out goes DW-1 and Maxlife will definitely be taking its place.

Biggest difference is with throttle halfway open, Maxlife bangs through the gear changes , while the DW-1 for 1-2-3 shifts arent crisp at all.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: iskerbibel
Personally I think Amsoil is ridiculously over-priced for what you get. But I think it would work as well as any DexIII.


Honda ATF-DW1 is $6.50-$7.50 qt, with suggested retail is $8.23

Amsoil ATF is $8.41, with suggested retail is $11.33

$25 more for a case of 12 is definitely more expensive, "ridiculously over-priced for what you get", that's what we call an exaggeration.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: bourne
Biggest difference is with throttle halfway open, Maxlife bangs through the gear changes , while the DW-1 for 1-2-3 shifts arent crisp at all.


Thanks; it sounds like I have the same shift feel issue that you have, and that fluid may be the answer.

My biggest complaint is the 1-2 shift in the Acura. At low throttle openings (like cruising around the neighborhood), it's glass smooth, you don't even know it happened, and I guess it happens quick enough or at least with a low amount of torque so the clutches aren't hammered. At high throttle openings, the shift is quick enough for my tastes, and happens pretty smoothly.

But at moderate throttle openings, the 1-2 shift will occur somewhere in the 3-4k rpm range, and it seems to take about a second for it to shift. It'll come out of first, and engage in second, but it takes almost a second, and I know that the clutches are holding up all of the torque, because the car doesn't really stop accelerating (or at least not much). The other upshifts in the Acura are fine, certainly fast enough. But the 1-2 shift is slower than I'd prefer.

It also seems worse when the fluid may have a lot of heat in it, like maybe it's getting sheared down in use. The shift is a little more precise when the fluid is cooler.

In the CR-V, shifts are pretty durn quick. The 1-2 shift is intentionally soft at very slow speeds and low throttle openings, and the Acura's transmission actually handles a soft 1-2 shift better than the CR-V does. I'm convinced now that the fluid is the difference. The CR-V's soft 1-2 shift almost feels artificially so, almost like the MaxLife fluid isn't as silky as the ATF-Z1 (or -DW1), and you can feel the clutches more.

 

[sciphi]

I like the Maxlife in our Fit's AT. It shifts fast and smooth. No head-bangingly hard shifts like on Z1. Hot or cold, it shifts the same. Good fluid IMO.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Is Castrol simply bottling two different bottles of the same product, or is the import version really different from the domestic version?


The import version is licensed for Mercon V and recommends it for that usage.

The domestic version is not, and carries no recommendation for use in Mercon V applications.

Mercon V > Mercon

So I would say, yes, they are different, and the import version is better since it meets the tougher Mercon V specification.

 

[bourne]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: bourne
Biggest difference is with throttle halfway open, Maxlife bangs through the gear changes , while the DW-1 for 1-2-3 shifts arent crisp at all.


Thanks; it sounds like I have the same shift feel issue that you have, and that fluid may be the answer.

My biggest complaint is the 1-2 shift in the Acura. At low throttle openings (like cruising around the neighborhood), it's glass smooth, you don't even know it happened, and I guess it happens quick enough or at least with a low amount of torque so the clutches aren't hammered. At high throttle openings, the shift is quick enough for my tastes, and happens pretty smoothly.

But at moderate throttle openings, the 1-2 shift will occur somewhere in the 3-4k rpm range, and it seems to take about a second for it to shift. It'll come out of first, and engage in second, but it takes almost a second, and I know that the clutches are holding up all of the torque, because the car doesn't really stop accelerating (or at least not much). The other upshifts in the Acura are fine, certainly fast enough. But the 1-2 shift is slower than I'd prefer.

It also seems worse when the fluid may have a lot of heat in it, like maybe it's getting sheared down in use. The shift is a little more precise when the fluid is cooler.

In the CR-V, shifts are pretty durn quick. The 1-2 shift is intentionally soft at very slow speeds and low throttle openings, and the Acura's transmission actually handles a soft 1-2 shift better than the CR-V does. I'm convinced now that the fluid is the difference. The CR-V's soft 1-2 shift almost feels artificially so, almost like the MaxLife fluid isn't as silky as the ATF-Z1 (or -DW1), and you can feel the clutches more.



BINGO! Its almost like the Torque convertor is going " Should i do it ..... maybe not ... maybe now " and we are just sitting there waiting for something , but nothing really happens , and then it slams it and you lurch forward. And yes my 1-2 shift is imperceptible at low throttle openings. Its so annoying that I have changed my driving style to work with the first 1/4th of the throttle because the tranny works the best then.
My gfs Civic , you could be cruising and put your foot down , a decisive downshift happens and you go . Sigh .... I almost wanna go back to a Nissan V6 with the issues I keep having with this car. Early 2000s honda/acura werent a shining example of their engineering prowess i guess.

 

[bourne]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: bourne
Biggest difference is with throttle halfway open, Maxlife bangs through the gear changes , while the DW-1 for 1-2-3 shifts arent crisp at all.


Thanks; it sounds like I have the same shift feel issue that you have, and that fluid may be the answer.



On a side note. If im not wrong you have a J35 engine in your car. Have you ever cleaned the egr ports in the upper intake manifold ?? If yours is anything like my J32 design , they were really really choked with carbon deposits at 80k. I got a very nice bump in the midrange after I cleaned those out.

 

[Hokiefyd]

In the upper plenum? No, I have not, but I will look.

 

[bourne]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
In the upper plenum? No, I have not, but I will look.


Yea. Make sure you get an oem gasket from the dealer. They have to order it so get it before you open it. Use a lenient amount of throttle body cleaner. I used about 3. Having a soft bristle brush helps. I also seafoamed to good affect through the vacuum port located on the throttle body.

 

[Sayjac]

As I said I would, I made the move to Maxlife ATF in an 01 Civic with 166k last week, a vehicle that has seen nothing but Z-1 D&F's since new. A gallon jug was ~$18 at AAP, a very reasonable price. My reasoning is that since Honda discontinued Z-1, now's a good time to go MaxLife instead of DW-1, plan the same for my Z-1 spec'd Accord too. I noticed no immediate difference in shift quality, but I've never had an issue (knock wood) with the notoriously repped 01 Civic AT/Z-1 combo either.

Can't speak to the Castrol Import ATF, no longer readily available here. Is it better than MaxLife because there is a separate Castrol Domestic, which is still sold in Wally?

But, Valvoline makes a separate Dex/Merc ATF too, just not sold under the MaxLife name.

Seems like either would work, but price, availability, and Bitog rep made MaxLife the choice for me.