Generator vs Inverter Generator

[alarmguy]

I am not a fan of gas only generators for areas where there might be damage from a hurricane requiring a generator. Storing a lot of gasoline before a hurricane is a PIA and dangerous. If no damage then need to use it in your car. Finding open gas stations with gas after a powerful storm can be difficult.

Propane is a better fuel for a generator bought to use during a storm. Even if you have to buy a tank for propane. It does not go bad.

Yeah, I agree, though by us there will always be a gas station. I am now thinking that even with only a 120 (96 actual) gallon propane tank it might be viable for short term blackouts of 24 ish hours if using a fuel efficient inverter. We have propane cooktop, water heater and fireplace. Having a connection for an inverter would be simple. More so with a unit that is just enough lets say to power the refrigerator, a cheap window AC unit that can be stored in the garage with the inverter and the TV as well as a few lights.

Anyway, the key is, from what I understand with my limited knowledge even a 96 gallon referred to as a 120 gallon (420 lbs) propane tank is not enough, more so is it isnt always full since it is in constant use. I doubt gas grill 4.5 gallons (20LB) tanks will last more than a few hours, you would need a lot of them its only 4.5 gallons. Propane is j ust not practical if you dont already have a large propane tank should you want to be prepared for the BIG storm. Keeping in mind my comments are based on losing long term power every 10 or more years.
Though, having the option for both would be nice. I could run off the 120 gallon propane and if it gets low switch to gasoline.

Im liking the idea of the mentioned 7000 watt mentioned above, maybe I could get by on less even, since I dont anticipate many uses for it though 7000 would be ideal.

https://www.amerigas.com/about-propane/propane-tank-sizes

 

[SC Maintenance]

I am not a fan of gas only generators for areas where there might be damage from a hurricane requiring a generator. Storing a lot of gasoline before a hurricane is a PIA and dangerous. If no damage then need to use it in your car. Finding open gas stations with gas after a powerful storm can be difficult.

Propane is a better fuel for a generator bought to use during a storm. Even if you have to buy a tank for propane. It does not go bad.

Dual fuel are readily available. So if you have a propane tank then it makes sense. If you don't have a propane tank it probably doesn't.

1.3 gallons of propane has the same energy as 1 gallon of gas. Not sure how that equates to ICE efficiency, but lets assume close enough. 120 gallon - or really 96 gallon tank, would be equivalent to about 74 gallons of gasoline - which is pretty good. Of course that is assuming its full on start.

You would have to do the math to see if its enough.

As mentioned, it doesn't go bad, so storing is easier. Of course a really bad storm likely means no resupply for a while. With gas you can likely drive some distance at some point and refuel, but thats a pain too.

In reality, your better with some functioning generator than no generator.

 

[eljefino]

In reality, your better with some functioning generator than no generator.

Don't let perfection be the enemy of good... theme of this thread.

 

[Donald]

Yeah, I agree, though by us there will always be a gas station. I am now thinking that even with only a 120 (96 actual) gallon propane tank it might be viable for short term blackouts of 24 ish hours if using a fuel efficient inverter. We have propane cooktop, water heater and fireplace. Having a connection for an inverter would be simple. More so with a unit that is just enough lets say to power the refrigerator, a cheap window AC unit that can be stored in the garage with the inverter and the TV as well as a few lights.

Anyway, the key is, from what I understand with my limited knowledge even a 96 gallon referred to as a 120 gallon (420 lbs) propane tank is not enough, more so is it isnt always full since it is in constant use. I doubt gas grill 4.5 gallons (20LB) tanks will last more than a few hours, you would need a lot of them its only 4.5 gallons. Propane is j ust not practical if you dont already have a large propane tank should you want to be prepared for the BIG storm. Keeping in mind my comments are based on losing long term power every 10 or more years.
Though, having the option for both would be nice. I could run off the 120 gallon propane and if it gets low switch to gasoline.

Im liking the idea of the mentioned 7000 watt mentioned above, maybe I could get by on less even, since I dont anticipate many uses for it though 7000 would be ideal.

https://www.amerigas.com/about-propane/propane-tank-sizes

I am not sure but I think in some states, maybe the hurricane prone ones the gas stations are required to have backup power.

Certainly a dual fuel generator might be handier than a propane only one. The portable ones that can use propane are mostly dual fuel. It's when you get to whole house ones where they will be propane/natural gas, no gasoline.

Even if gas stations are open dragging a bunch of 5 gallon gas containers to the gas station daily gets old quickly and to be safe you need a truck. I would not want 20 gallons of gasoline in 5 gallon containers in a trunk or mini van.

 

[alarmguy]

I am not sure but I think in some states, maybe the hurricane prone ones the gas stations are required to have backup power.

Certainly a dual fuel generator might be handier than a propane only one. The portable ones that can use propane are mostly dual fuel. It's when you get to whole house ones where they will be propane/natural gas, no gasoline.

Even if gas stations are open dragging a bunch of 5 gallon gas containers to the gas station daily gets old quickly and to be safe you need a truck. I would not want 20 gallons of gasoline in 5 gallon containers in a trunk or mini van.

Agree, NG or LPG are much more convenient. It doesnt break down like gasoline either.
Duel would work out well if you have a limited supply of LPG/ such as a 120 gallon tank that might not be full when you lose power. Gas would be a nice back up.

NG is ideal.

 

[Donald]

Agree, NG or LPG are much more convenient. It doesnt break down like gasoline either.
Duel would work out well if you have a limited supply of LPG/ such as a 120 gallon tank that might not be full when you lose power. Gas would be a nice back up.

NG is ideal.

I have found used LP gas tanks on CL and similar places. Add a second 120 gallon one dedicated for the generator with ability to connect to the other 120 gallon tank. There is more to the total cost for backup power than just the generator.

The church camp has a backup generator with two 120 gallons tanks of propane. It powers freezers and walk-in refrigerator in dining hall. But it sucks down the propane quickly powering mainly things in the kitchen.

A data center I use to work in had 6 huge generators and 100 tons of UPS batteries and 50,000 gallons of diesel fuel and 10,000 gallons of water. Bullet proof glass in the windows.

 

[6.7 CTD]

For that price, I would jump on it. I paid 1199 for

For that price, I would jump on it. I paid 1199 for it!

Called tractor supply to inquire whether they would honor the current sale price; being that I purchased this generator recently. They did honor the sale price and refunded my card, so for that I thank you for posting the link!

 

[Donald]

Agree, NG or LPG are much more convenient. It doesnt break down like gasoline either.
Duel would work out well if you have a limited supply of LPG/ such as a 120 gallon tank that might not be full when you lose power. Gas would be a nice back up.

NG is ideal.

There have been hurricanes where fires started and the gas company shut off the gas to a whole section of the city. A company that had a warehouse with frozen food had a backup NG generator. They lost everything due to the NG being shutdown.

 

[jcy]

Agree, NG or LPG are much more convenient. It doesnt break down like gasoline either.
Duel would work out well if you have a limited supply of LPG/ such as a 120 gallon tank that might not be full when you lose power. Gas would be a nice back up.

NG is ideal.

But NG delivers significantly fewer watts than gas or propane, right?

 

[alarmguy]

But NG delivers significantly fewer watts than gas or propane, right?

Yes but propane and gas cost more and have to be delivered.
NG is always there at your house all the time except the very most extreme conditions (that Donald mentioned) that I personally never encountered in my very so far long life

You make a good point though if that matters to someone, I only learned of it in the last year that they actually put the lower NG output on the box along with the propane/gasoline.

Our new home, first time in my life I have a home without NG. I do miss the lower cost and convenience although our electric here is dirt cheap @10 cents kWr
Propane cost is stupid expensive with Suburban propane

I can get my 20lb (4.5 gallons)gas grill tank filled at my ACE hardware for less than I pay suburban to service my home 120 gallon tank

 

[SC Maintenance]

There have been hurricanes where fires started and the gas company shut off the gas to a whole section of the city. A company that had a warehouse with frozen food had a backup NG generator. They lost everything due to the NG being shutdown.

Of course anything is possible. However in all the hurricane power outages I have been through we have not lost natural gas. However in the big Texas freeze I do believe some did, or they ran out or something?

Are you trying to prepare for TEOTWAWKI? If not, then you need to at some point calculate odds and decide what level of risk is acceptable.

Or just move 100% off grid and roll your own 100%.

 

[Donald]

Just installed one in my camper. The Victron gear is solid.

I've already started thinking about a whole house solar/battery setup using Victron gear.

So if people get a Victron (inverter & charger) what kind of battery? Car/truck size? Normal flooded? AGM? I saw a Li Phosphate (car/truck size) in West Marine for $2000.

 

[ctechbob]

So if people get a Victron (inverter & charger) what kind of battery? Car/truck size? Normal flooded? AGM? I saw a Li Phosphate (car/truck size) in West Marine for $2000.

LifePO4 is where it's at for inverters and the like these days. There's tons of them coming in from across the pond that are actually very good. Lead is pretty much dead for backup purposes these days. LifePO4's are capable of cycling thousands of times vs 500 for lead chemistries.

Will Prowse on YT does some interesting teardowns showing what they're built like.

I've got just about $800 in 600ah worth of them in the camper at the moment. Of course, for home use you're usually not constrained by space for the most part. I would definitely jump straight to a 48 volt system there. You'll spend a tiny bit more in batteries, but less on wiring.

https://www.youtube.com/@WillProwse

 

[Donald]

LifePO4 is where it's at for inverters and the like these days. There's tons of them coming in from across the pond that are actually very good. Lead is pretty much dead for backup purposes these days. LifePO4's are capable of cycling thousands of times vs 500 for lead chemistries.

Will Prowse on YT does some interesting teardowns showing what they're built like.

I've got just about $800 in 600ah worth of them in the camper at the moment. Of course, for home use you're usually not constrained by space for the most part. I would definitely jump straight to a 48 volt system there. You'll spend a tiny bit more in batteries, but less on wiring.

https://www.youtube.com/@WillProwse

If I got a Victron and say $1000 worth of LifePO4 batteries how long would your average (newish) home refrigerator run? Obviously refrig does not run the compressor all the time. Are we talking an hour? Half day? Day?

I could go a couple of thousand but not looking to invest $10K in batteries.

 

[mk378]

Four 100 Ah 12.8 volt batteries (about $200 each) is 5.12 kWh stored energy. That will run a refrigerator alone for a few days.

Watch out for no-load consumption of inverters. If you leave the inverter on constantly to power something like a refrigerator that only runs intermittently, the inverter itself can drain quite a bit from the battery. It's an important specification to consider when buying an inverter.

 

[Pablo]

LifePO4 is where it's at for inverters and the like these days. There's tons of them coming in from across the pond that are actually very good. Lead is pretty much dead for backup purposes these days. LifePO4's are capable of cycling thousands of times vs 500 for lead chemistries.

Will Prowse on YT does some interesting teardowns showing what they're built like.

I've got just about $800 in 600ah worth of them in the camper at the moment. Of course, for home use you're usually not constrained by space for the most part. I would definitely jump straight to a 48 volt system there. You'll spend a tiny bit more in batteries, but less on wiring.

https://www.youtube.com/@WillProwse

Been watching this guy for awhile now. I love his vids and honesty. Watch his DCS battery evaluation. Neato.

 

[eljefino]

There have been hurricanes where fires started and the gas company shut off the gas to a whole section of the city. A company that had a warehouse with frozen food had a backup NG generator. They lost everything due to the NG being shutdown.

And propane bottles float away in floods. One must assess and balance their own risks.

 

[Pablo]

The cost of a home flywheel kinetic storage system is still too high. But combine with a LP/Diesel/Petrol/NG gennie, solar, battery and wind turbine you would be all set.

 

[Rust_Belt_Pete]

I bought a predator 5000 inverter generator to use in case of snow storms here and posted a question on a facebook group dedicated to those generators.
Either I am the dumbest person on the planet or that group is full of ignorant jerks incapable of reading.

 

[Pablo]

I bought a predator 5000 inverter generator to use in case of snow storms here and posted a question on a facebook group dedicated to those generators.
Either I am the dumbest person on the planet or that group is full of ignorant jerks incapable of reading.

I have the 9500 version. Thanks for saving me the time wasted searching for that group!