General Motors investing $854 million to build V8 engines amid EV shift

[demarpaint]

For GM to make that type of an investment in ICE engines they must feel they're going to be around a lot longer than the powers that be are hoping. If the powers that be get voted out in 2024, that investment will look even better. Putting all your eggs in one basket can often lead to a lot of broken eggs. JMO

 

[userfriendly]

To be fair, The coal from Sparwood is metallurgical coal exported to Asia for steel making.

That coal will "never see the front door of a power plant" (a Shannow quote).
I think the peak price was over $200 USD per metric ton.
A slow day would be 6 loaded trains, each with about 18,000 tons of coal heading down the Elk Valley to Delta Port.
"286 loading" means the gross rail car weight is 286,000 lbs, or 143 tons in the old money. An aluminum rail car weighs about 25 tons.
What ever 22,000 horsepower will pull up the Rogers Pass is the number of cars on the train.
My heaviest potash train was 170 cars plus 5 locomotives @ 210 tons each. (GE AC44s). Does 25,360 tons sound about right?

Power plants typically burn low grade high sulphur brown coal, pretty much free for the digging with no commercial value.
CN also delivers coal to Prince Rupert, Vancouver north shore and Delta Port.
I'd have to look up what a "cape class" bulk carrier can hold. Many of them are built by Hyundai.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Buick at one time produced some very popular and durable V6 engines.

The GNX was awesome.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Gm sold almost 800,000 pickups in the USA in 2022. The shareholders are probably OK with that.

Right but what's the distribution per powerplant?

I find it odd that GM would invest in a new V8 when it appears that all automakers are going turbo 6 with or without hybrid.

Perhaps they'll all be hybrids?

 

[supton]

I find it odd that GM would invest in a new V8 when it appears that all automakers are going turbo 6 with or without hybrid.

Perhaps they'll all be hybrids?

GM is just odd. Who else is still pushrod 2 valve? ok, I think Ford might have a big gasser now… but who else?

Toyota was known for playing a long game, maybe GM has their own bet about the future. As we all know, batteries and heavy duty working vehicles are not in the position of mixing, and diesel emissions (and fuel prices) have put the pinch on diesel.

 

[Snagglefoot]

I agree that a lot of this dough will go towards getting the hybrid technology applied correctly. Since trucks are heavy, conserving the energy from braking and reapplying it to acceleration makes a lot of sense. So far I sense the hybrid option in trucks has been a bit hokey. It begs for an improvement.

 

[A_Harman]

The article I read said the new engine was going to be called 6th-Gen, so I assume it will be a continuation of the LS-LT series of pushrod engines. Perhaps LU? But what cars are left to put it in? The Corvette. Camaro will be gone. So maybe there will be an LU1 to go in the Corvette, then L87 and L88 5.3 and 6.2L for the 1/2-ton trucks. HD trucks will probably continue with the L8T 6.6L. Might the Corvette get the long-stroke crank to make it 6.6L and a healthy bump in power to 530?

I'd like to see an iron-block 5.3L DI turbo version for heavy-duty trucks. Not a high-rpm engine, but one tuned for peak power at ~4000 rpm, and peak torque at 2500. 450 hp, 800 lb*ft torque and can maintain sea-level performance to 11,000 feet. And Flex-fuel capable. Think of it as a spark-ignition analog to the diesel. Modern diesels have become too expensive and unreliable. The turbo GDI V8 could be cheaper than the $10,000 Duramax, and if the price can be kept to $2000 over the L8T, they might have something.

 

[A_Harman]

i feel like an inline 6 of significant displacement is going to be a packaging issue.

Wonder if this new V8 is going to be anything like this:

750-hp DOHC LS-based Mercury Racing Motor from the Roadster Shop

Marine engine specialist Mercury is building an exotic, Chevy-based dual-overhead-camshaft V-8. That’s the story lead you might have read just about 30 years ag

www.motortrend.com

I doubt it. There's no place for 8000 rpm DOHC engines in pickup trucks.

 

[Snagglefoot]

GM is just odd. Who else is still pushrod 2 valve? ok, I think Ford might have a big gasser now… but who else?

Reminds me of Joe Cocker’s song.

Unchain my block,
Baby let me go.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I agree that the ICE age is not over yet despite what the say but I don’t understand the investing back into V8s. Build a turbo six with better fuel economy.

They didn’t learn from the 70’s.

LD trucks the LB3 4 banger turbo that make more torque than a mid performance 402BBC with only 166cu-in.

Maybe do the AUDI thing and stretch it to a 5. Once you get to a V config the complexity and cost goes way up,

Personally I do like small 60 deg sixes ad engines though.

 

[DuckRyder]

I doubt it. There's no place for 8000 rpm DOHC engines in pickup trucks.

I meant more the architecture (dohc LS based) than the 700 hp. Pretty sure a everyday run of the mill F150 DOHC 400HP coyote turns 7000 or so though (the mustang version makes peak HP at 7000.)

 

[2EHA]

there’s only so much performance you can pull out of an na v8 with breathing problems. the 5.3 and 6.6 are maxed out for their applications…

the gen iii was very impressive when the competition was putting out pitiful power figures but in the year 2023 that’s no longer the case

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

There is no replacement for displacement.

Twin turbos compensate for a large number of cubic inches. My 213ci engine (even stock!) makes more torque (3+ lb-ft per cubic inch on pump fuel and a tune) than any factory mass-market 427 cubic inch engine ever had. Turned up, the torque is greater than even several stroked & poked non-power-adder BBCs. Seems like they’re a pretty good replacement for displacement, especially when you consider fuel mileage

 

[UncleDave]

I doubt it. There's no place for 8000 rpm DOHC engines in pickup trucks.

It doesn't work very well in a single engine boat either ....

 

[DuckRyder]

It doesn't work very well in a single engine boat either ....

Kindig seems to have taken a shine to them...

 

[UncleDave]

Kindig seems to have taken a shine to them...

Wedged into a car with a gearbox they are likely killer....

 

[fantastic]

It makes financial sense for the market & timing. EV's are still a baby for the time being.

 

[philipp10]

Today’s ICE is getting to be what, upwards of 40%? At best we’re only going to double what we can get from it, and I think those with thermodynamic backgrounds could explain where the actual limit is, with the Otto cycle.

A big lumbering big block, small turbo at low pressure (mostly to offset power loss at altitude)—I have to wonder if that couldn’t be a smooth low cost path for vehicles that spend most of their time under load. High pressure engines can better deal with low load situations, while doing ok under high load, but I wonder, for vehicles expected to last years and years, if a bigger engine at lower boost might not hold the edge. Just a swag.

"double what we get".....from here? Ah no, we are about peaked out as far as efficiency.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Gm sold almost 800,000 pickups in the USA in 2022. The shareholders are probably OK with that.

It's their bread and butter.

 

[supton]

"double what we get".....from here? Ah no, we are about peaked out as far as efficiency.

Won't disagree, my point is, if we could somehow double the efficiency, well, we're not going to do better than that. If a loaded truck could only get 10mpg under load today, absolute best at any point in the future would be 20. That'd be a full near conversion of all the energy from one form to another. There is no magic bullet that would make that truck use much less energy per mile.

There's some incremental gains left on the table, but we're not far from the limit, I would wager, going to your point. And full electric, there is a stack of losses there too, so it doesn't magically get better for pure EV (not unless if you can get the energy for free, and that isn't happening either).

So which has better BSFC? Big bore engine at low rpm, NA or otherwise, as opposed to a small bore engine at high boost?