Gas,The REAL Story

[motorguy222]

While the oil companies keep saying that the supply of oil is the problem behind the high cost of gas,NOW,a PBS broadcast,has shown an unflattering program telling a different story.

The show told of the exporting of gas and diesel fuel just before the increases in price for these fuels.

It also told of how that gas is exported to make the US supply low,this then makes the price go up in the US and gives the Oil companies huge profits.

The companies sell the exported gas to foreign countries such as Mexico and Canada.

It told how Shell planned on shutting down and demolishing a California refinery that Shell said was not making a profit.

However,a whistleblower from Shell provided documents that showed the refinery was the most profitable rifinery that Shell operated in the US.

Shell was closing the plant to cause a shortage of fuel to make prices increase.

It also told of a refinery,Powerine(?) that was kept closed by big oil companies.

A buyer for the company was found,the buyer was denied by the bank because the large oil companies threatened to take their deposits from the bank.

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/energy/pr/?postId=2091&pageTitle=New+Study+Finds+Cause+of+Midwest+Gasoline+Price+Spikes%3B+Midwest+Oil+Refiners%27+Manipulation+Of+I nventories+%26+E xports+To+Blame

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/ene...ne+Prices:+a+Case+of+Cheating,+Not+Competing;

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/ene...d+Refinery+Is+Historic+Victory+For+Motorists;

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/ene...ageTitle=Shell+says+it+has+buyer+for+refinery

 

[Pablo]

Can someone confirm this from another angle?

sounds worse than usual

 

[ShortBuSX]

The articles are hardly recent, look at the dates at the top of them.

 

[motorguy222]

Three of the articles are from March 2004 and Jan.2005,not very old considering the way that an oil company would work.

The NOW program was just a day or so ago.

They spoke to people regarding the supposed oil/gas shortage and even had the Shell whistleblower on the show.

The whistleblowers identity was hidden for his protection.

It would seem that the process of lowering the oil/gas supply would not happen overnight,it would be a little at a time.

An overnight loss of oil/gas would be hard to explain,a longer process of the oil/gas supply getting lower is easier.

If one considers a record 9.9(?)billion dollar profit for Exxon/Mobil in a three month period,you wonder.

I messed up a link,here it is:

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/ene...ikes;+Midwest+Oil+Refiners'+Manipulation+Of+I nventories+%26+E xports+To+Blame

 

[1sttruck]

Can't be, it's just 'free market forces' at work, kind of like electrical power a few years back. Remember all of the articles, a new market for electrical power at work, savvy power brokers having wisely understood and benefited from the new market, and the dummies in California getting what they deserved ?

With oil we should be using taxpayer subsidies to develop new sources, give the oil companies more tax breaks, and minimize government oversight so that they'll continue to watch over our best interests in the most profitable manner. Yup, nothing like watching basic forces like Social Darwinism at work. Uh, but, wait, that's evolution, so that can't be. Uh, now what do we do, hey, who's in charge of the dogma around here, somthing isn't right..... :^)

 

[keith]

I don't know about California because I don't live there, but it seems there is enough substance there for an investigation by the state. Unless they did already and found the evidence comes up short? It wouldn't be the first time a story on PBS is, shall we say, weighted more to one side of an issue than the other.

Oil companies operate with a profit margin lower than Microsoft, so maybe we ought to investigate them too. Come to think of it, we did and crashed the stock market

The latest talk from our US Senate is of an extra "windfall" tax on oil companies (can you spell f-a-s-c-i-s-m). That displays a profound misunderstanding of who pays business taxes - it's the consumer

By all means ensure the oil companies are playing by the rules. This is already one of the most heavily regulated and taxed industries though, and I wonder what else can be done. Calmer heads need to be considering this, not the alarmist clowns on both sides of the aisle in the Senate who are more interested in sucking extra dollars out of your pocket than they have any genuine concern for energy policy.

 

[motorguy222]

While PBS may have a more liberal slant,one really has to look at what is being said.

The oil companies are making money by forcing an oil shortage.

Oil may be regulated but any company can falsify records and get around regulations.

The major oil companies have a monopoly on oil and the mergers arent helping any.

Theres no one to really compete with,the major oil companies are now merged into Exxon-Mobil,Shell-Pennz-QS,Chevron-Texaco,BP-Amoco.

The major gas stations are Shell,BP,Chevron and Mobil.

These are the stations that one can find almost anywhere.

While there may be a few others,the ones listed above are the major players.

 

[SixPak]

How much money does the government {politicians} get from the oil companies, in the form of taxes (kickbacks)?

I'm thinking the gov't makes as much, if not more than 'the major oil companies' on each barrel of oil.

 

[Gary Allan]

I think it's possible ..but not likely.

and can you PLEASE learn to use the link button? It really makes for easier reading of the post.

 

[pitzel]

Oh give me a break. Oil (and commodities) have been terrible investments for the past 20 years. While big manufacturing companies were returning 13-15%/year to their owners, big oil (ie: XOM) was returning only 10% over that same interval.


The Dow Jones Industrial Average went from, in 1986, a level of roughly 1200, to today's level of 10686. For an increase of 790%, or 12.2%/year. ExxonMobil went from (split-adjusted) $10 in 1986 to only $56 today, only an increase of 460% over the same time interval.

So before y'all whine about corporate profits and shareholder enrichment, keep in mind that most other big american businesses have been a lot more profitable and successful than big american oil.

In fact, superimpose the 35-year chart of pretty much any big american company against XOM and XOM doesn't look like such a great performer.

BTW, I still am paying less for petrol at my local pumps than I was in 2001, despite the ravages of inflation ever since. Americans only have the depreciation of their dollar to blame for high petrol prices, and that ultimately feeds back to irresponsible government policies.

 

[Pablo]

Good perspective pitzel.

Takes a Canadian to show us the way

 

[Al]

No matter how you slice it..At $1.75-$2.00 there isn't enough gas. At above $2.50 there is enough and conservation takes gas. Oil company profit margins are on the average about the same as any other industry. Everyone loves the free market, except when it works against them.

There is 100% probability that unless our usage of petroleum products decreases we will be in the midst of a Depression in not too many years distant.

BTW the Dollar has nothing to do with the recent rise of prices. The dollar is stronger against most currencies now than almost 2 years ago.

If the oil companies are gouging us (which they aren't) they would be doing us a favor. We don't have much time left.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Wisearse Canadians. Always have to show us how good we've got it.

 

[motorguy222]

The follwong snips are from http://snowdeal.org/

The Seattle Times Exxon's quarterly revenue equals $45 million an hour
"More than a billion dollars a day, $45 million an hour, almost $340 for every living American — that's what Exxon Mobil reported in third-quarter revenue Thursday.

For the oil giant, that translated to $9.9 billion in net income.


Convenience Store News Oil Refineries' Huge Profits Predate Big Storms
"While gasoline shortages from hurricanes Katrina and Rita have caused some price spikes, DenverPost.com reported refiners' gross profit margins have been climbing steadily for the past year, long before the hurricanes hit. A Denver Post analysis shows that gross profit margins on gasoline at the nation's refineries have more than tripled from about $7 a barrel in September 2004 to $22.77 on Tuesday."

"According to the DenverPost.com , energy analysts and economists say refiners have been able to increase margins for two main reasons: limited refining capacity that can cause spot shortages of gasoline and lack of competition in the refining sector, such as big mergers that brought together companies such as Exxon and Mobil, Chevron and Texaco, and Conoco and Phillips have reduced competition. "


Public Citizen’s Critical Mass Energy & Environment Program No Competition: Oil Industry Mergers Provide Higher Profits, Leave Consumers with Fewer Choices [2001]
"The five companies with vertically integrated market power enjoyed significantly higher profits in both upstream (exploration and production) and downstream (refining and marketing) domestic operations. Exxon-Mobil enjoyed 2000 income 146% higher in upstream and 171% higher in downstream compared to 1999.A combined Chevron-Texaco merger enjoyed upstream income 220% higher and downstream 23% higher. Phillips-Tosco had upstream income 327% higher and downstream income 227% higher. Marathon had upstream income rise by 126% and downstream income rise 108%. BP Amoco-Arco had global upstream income increase 141% and downstream income increase 166%. Since these companies are enjoying significant income increases in every sector, this indicates that OPEC’s influence is not a major factor in the ability of the top five corporations to affect domestic gasoline prices."

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Here is a post from http://rense.com/general67/PRICE.HTM

I dont know how accurate it is but it makes one wonder.

 

[Willy_G]

Sounds like the old "Operation Death Star" gammut from the 3 Ring Circus called Enron.

http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2002-05-17/pols_capitol.html

 

[Dan4510]

I dont believe that the large corporations have anyone's interest but their own at heart. They are now mult-national and will play anyone against anyone to up thier profits.

Dan

All of you ought to read this:

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Experts estimate that Americans consume more than 25 percent of the world's oil but have control over less than 3 percent of its proven oil supply. This unbalanced pattern of consumption makes it possible for foreign governments, corrupt political leaders, terrorist organizations, and oil conglomerates to hold the economy and the citizens of the United States in a virtual stranglehold. There is no greater proof of this than the direct relationship between skyrocketing gas prices and the explosion of wealth among those who control the world's supply of oil.

In "Black Gold Stranglehold," Jerome Corsi and Craig Smith expose the fraudulent science that has made America so vulnerable: the belief that oil is a fossil fuel and that it is a finite resource. This book reveals the conclusions reached by Dr. Thomas Gold, a professor at Cornell University, in his seminal book "The Deep Hot Biosphere: The Myth of Fossil Fuels" (Copernicus Books, 1998) and accepted by many in the scientific community that oil is not a product of fossils and prehistoric forests but rather the bio-product of a continuing biochemical reaction below the earth's surface that is brought to attainable depths by the centrifugal forces of the earth's rotation.

Jerome Corsi explores the international and domestic politics of oil production and consumption, including the wealth and power of major oil conglomerates, the manipulation of world economies by oil-producing nations and rogue terrorist regimes, and the shortsightedness of those who endorse expensive conservation efforts while rejecting the use of the oil reserves currently controlled by the U.S. government.

As an expert in tangible assets, Craig Smith provides an understanding of the history of America's dangerous dissociation of the dollar with precious—and truly scarce—metals such as gold and the devastation that would be inflicted on the U.S. economy if Middle Eastern countries are able to follow through with current plans to make the euro the standard currency for oil instead of U.S. dollars.

"Black Gold Stranglehold" is a thoughtful work that is certain to dramatically change the debate on oil consumption, oil dependence, and oil availability.

JEROME R. CORSI, Ph.D., is the author of "Atomic Iran" and the coauthor of the New York Times #1 bestseller "Unfit for Command." The author of many articles and books, he received his Ph.D. from Harvard University and lives in New Jersey.

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[satterfi]

"
I dont believe that the large corporations have anyone's interest but their own at heart.
"

Why should they? As a stockholder, I want the companies I invest in to make a profit, more is better.

Cheap oil is gone, forever. Get over it.

The next b_itch is going to be the cost of heating and air conditioning our homes. Take a look at NYMEX futures for energy. You havn't seen the worst yet.

You can always sell your POCrap that gets 20mpg and buy a car that gets 30+mpg. Try selling your house and buying another to reduce your energy costs by a third.

 

[Dan4510]

A car that is paid for that gets 20mpg is still far cheaper than buying a new car that gets 30mpg. With a new car you spend gobs of money for note, depreciation, insurance, tags, etc before a penny goes to gas...Its about total cost not about mine gets 20mpg vs yours gets 30mpg.

20mpg and paid for is a heck of a deal. Beats any new car I know of.

Interesting to note also, none of the points I posted were refuted.

 

[NJC]

satterfi:

quote:

---

"
I dont believe that the large corporations have anyone's interest but their own at heart.
"

Why should they? As a stockholder, I want the companies I invest in to make a profit, more is better.

---

So if you are unfortunate enough to be without adequate health insurance and are required to pay finance-draining medical bills (as example), no problem with "free market" capitalism either because the HMO/drug companies are making a profit for share holders..?

 

[satterfi]

njc:

I used to be poor, it sucked, I lived off an income of less than $7,000 a year. I still managed to pay books and tuition.

Don't cry anywhere near me because I made it.

I now hold stock in energy companies, health care, furniture, you name it.

It cost what it costs. If you don't like it, don't buy it. No one said you could live like a prince for nothing.