Gas leaks and floor valves

Pablo · Sep 14, 2005

Got gas……….

Leaks?

So we move in the new house. Smell gas under cook top (kitchen island). Call gas company. Two trips later, fixed - no charge.

Next weekend (last Saturday) - decided to light pilot light for gas fireplace. Turn floor valve on (log lighter type with key), a real PITA to get pilot lit but it starts, fire it up and it works real well. Turn unit off and wow, I smell gas. Checked everything out - gas is coming from floor valve and not slowly. Call gas company. Dude threatens to shut off at meter, but turning floor valve off stops leak at valve. Red tags valve as dangerous, but gas company doesn't do floor valves.

Get quote to replace valve $271. Call RE agent to gripe. We've been in house for less than 1.5 weeks and two gas leaks? What?? Call Home Inspector. NO help there - he missed TWO gas leaks.

Any ideas for recourse? Remedy?

Anyone know those valves?

rg144 · Sep 14, 2005

Possibly you could collect from previous owner if you can document they had they problem and did not disclose it to you.

A brand new house (the kind that start in the low 600's) down the road had a gas leak and lit up (there were probably 3 fire departments, more than 20 vehicles all together I'd guess) - gosh you could smell the gas. I pity the company that did the work!

Pablo · Sep 14, 2005

I am going after the PO's.

kenw · Sep 14, 2005

spread liquid soap on the valves to find the actual leak with the resulting bubbles.

It could be the o-rings or shaft packing (should replace the valve), or just the flare fitting that needs to be snugged up.

Gas company tagged me one time, it was just the flare fitting. Bubbles found it, a pair of wrenches fixed it and no more bubbles verified it.

Steve S · Sep 14, 2005

Kinda like buying a used car, Depends on how the previous owner did the maintainance.

Pablo · Sep 14, 2005

My letter:

quote:

Dear Pat Kaiser/Bob Green

We really are enjoying our new home. We now realize what a great neighborhood this is, and how many kids are in the area. We have started to enjoy the yard and have even got the fountain in the pond working. The interior of the house has been kept in relatively good condition so we also appreciate this as well.

Two issues have come up that I simply could not fix and move on as would be very normal in buying a used home. Both are potentially dangerous and they both involve natural gas leaks inside the house.

The first incident was detected during our very first hours within the house on Sept 1. We smelled natural gas in the kitchen near the cook top. Our first reaction was to call the gas company (PSE) and they promptly came to the house. Several fittings below the Amana gas cook top were improperly assembled, allowing gas to constantly leak at a low rate and fill the cupboard below the cook top. . The gas technician tightened several fittings and departed. Within several hours we smelled gas in the cupboard again, but at a much lower rate. Another technician came to the house, completely disassembled the connections, cleaned and reassembled with new pipe joint compound. Gas was not detected under the cook top at any time after this point. There was no charge for the two service calls by PSE.

The second incident occurred on September 10th. We smelled gas very strongly near the floor valve for the gas fireplace. PSE was called and a technician came to the house. His methane detector, audibly went wild. I was required to remove my family from the house and the technician found gas leaking from the floor valve itself. He red tagged the valve and said he may have to shut the gas off at the meter, but fortunately shutting the floor valve off stopped the leak. I was informed by the technician that the gas floor valve is defective and the gas company does not replace floor valves. He said I should "look in the yellow pages". I did some investigation and got quotes in the $300-400 range - however after further contacts and knowledge, I was able to get a quote for $271 from a fully qualified local company. At this point the valve is shut off and the gas fireplace is inoperable and of no use to us.

These potentially dangerous situations could have been detected prior to our occupancy of the house and it is only fair that all parties involved have some stake in a proper remedy. A three way split ($90 each) of the actual cost would be equitable and would bring this matter to a complete close.

Sincerely,

The Seminara Family

Amkeer · Sep 14, 2005

Pabs,

File claim with your home inspector.

Pablo · Sep 14, 2005

That's who "Bob Green" is. But what do you mean by "file a claim"?

TallPaul · Sep 14, 2005

I had a home inspector that missed all kinds of things. An example: when I pointed out that he did not even inform me that the wall outlets were reverse polarity, he replied that it dosen't matter since it is AC. Right, that's why most items come with a plug that can only go in one way. Do you want the lamp socket live, or just the little tab in the bottom of the socket. The guy just didn't get it. I suspect that any Joe Blow can be a "home inspector."

JayhawkRoy · Sep 14, 2005

Home inspectors around here will be the first to tell you that if you wanted a technical inspection of your gas, plumbing, roof or electric, then it should be hired out to a real licensed expert. They inspect for "general condition". I suspect you will get a similar answer. It's worth a shot, and hopefully the previous owner will come in with some bucks, even if they didn't know about the fireplace problem.

Pablo · Sep 14, 2005

Yeah - I am a pretty good home inspector. I must note the windows near the leaks were open when we were inspecting...hmm............

Amkeer · Sep 15, 2005

Good letter Pabs!

The home inspector normally will have a disclaimer that lists his totally liability to the cost of the inspection. A 3 way split would be the equitable way to deal with the situation.

John K · Sep 15, 2005

A fair and reasonable request. You should get points for stating the problem in such calm logical terms. Hope they come through. I have my doubts if they will, but hope they do. Good luck.

Pablo · Sep 15, 2005

Here's what I'm sending to the home inspector:

quote:

Dear Bob,

I would like to thank you for your recent $375 inspection of our home in Duvall. We really are enjoying our new house. We are happy to find out this is a great neighborhood, and how many kids are in the area. We have started to enjoy and renovate the yard and have the waterfall in the pond now working. The interior of the house has been kept in relatively good condition so we also appreciate this as well. We did find non-connected outlets in the garage (outlets there with wire in wall but wire left dangling in rafters), several unlockable windows (as manufactured), fairly large holes in the walls, shower door that falls off the rail, no undersill in laundry/garage door - all issues that I will remedy myself and frankly items I consider minor.

Two issues have come up that I simply could not fix and move on, as would
be very normal in buying a used home. Both are potentially dangerous and
they both involve natural gas leaks inside of the house. Please see attached PSE reports.

The first incident was detected during our very first hours within the
house on Sept 1. We smelled natural gas in the kitchen near the cook
top. Our first reaction was to call the gas company (PSE) and they
promptly came to the house. Several fittings below the Amana gas cook
top were improperly assembled, allowing gas to constantly leak at a low
rate and fill the cupboard below the cook top. . The gas technician
tightened several fittings and departed. Within several hours we smelled
gas in the cupboard again, but at a much lower rate. Another technician
came to the house, completely disassembled the connections, cleaned and
reassembled with new pipe joint compound. Gas was not detected under the
cook top at any time after this point. There was no charge for the two
service calls by PSE.

The second incident occurred on September 10th. We smelled gas very
strongly near the floor valve for the gas fireplace. PSE was called and
a technician came to the house. His methane detector, audibly went wild.
I was required to remove my family from the house and the technician
found gas leaking from the floor valve itself. He red tagged the valve
and said he may have to shut the gas off at the meter, but fortunately
shutting the floor valve off stopped the leak. I was informed by the
technician that the gas floor valve is defective and the gas company
does not replace floor valves. He said I should "look in the yellow
pages". I did some investigation and got quotes in the $300-400 range -
however after further contacts and knowledge, I was able to get a quote
for $271 from a fully qualified local company. At this point the valve
is shut off and the gas fireplace is inoperable and of no use to us.

These potentially dangerous situations could have been detected prior to
our occupancy of the house and I consider them a threat to my family. Both these leaks existed prior to our purchase of the home and it is only fair that all parties involved have some stake in a proper remedy. The preference is to not pursue legal means.

A three way split ($90 each) of the actual cost, between the buyer, seller and inspector would be equitable and would bring this matter to a complete close.

Sincerely,

Paul Seminara
The Seminara Family

Pablo · Sep 19, 2005

quote:

Hi Paul,
I can understand your frustration with the gas situation in you new home. I
think that you understand that my inspection time in the home is limited and
I only do an on/off check with the appliances and do not operate shut off
valves. Therefore, it would have been very difficult for me to note the
issues that you have encountered. I will refund you the $90.00 as requested
to assist you with the needed repairs. I will drop a check in the mail with
a refund agreement that I ask that you sign and return to me.
Sincerely,
Bob Green

kenw · Sep 19, 2005

sugar beats vinegar once again.

Gas leaks and floor valves

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