Is any indication given by an oil filter being full or completely empty after removed? In my previous oil change, when I removed the filter (which came off by hand), there was oil in the filter (the filter was a Valvoline from a quick lube place). Recently, I changed my oil and removed my Pure One filter (Mobil 1 oil). I needed to use a wrench to get it off, and there was no oil in it...
Full or empty oil filter after change
- Thread starter dwmcqueen
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Sounds bad for the Pure One. If the ADBV is working wherever it is, the filter should have oil in it. I wouldn't worry about having to use the wrench. Most people do. I have always oiled the gasket and tightened mine tight enough I do need a wrench to get them off. I never remember of having one come loose, leak, or refuse to come off at all. There is a middle ground where they stay on, but can be removed easily with a wrench.
So, probably a good thing I decided to change at 3,000 compared to later??
Now, SuperTech + Auto-RX all the way! Blend 10w30 and SuperTech filter...
Now, SuperTech + Auto-RX all the way! Blend 10w30 and SuperTech filter...
And what is the best way to open up the filter to look inside to make sure the oil is passing thru?
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I use a filter wrench to loosen the filter a bit. Then I put a ziploc bag over it and spin it off. There's always plenty oil in there. The new filter (fresh oil on gasket) is prefilled and gets spun on hand-tight, then gets another 1/4 turn.
[ July 15, 2003, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: moribundman ]
[ July 15, 2003, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: moribundman ]
Now I am worried. I need to look at the filter to make sure oil is even coming thru the car....
if oil wasnt going through the filter you would wreck your engine rather quickly. so based on the fcst that you changed your oil (implies you drove for some distance with the filter) and your engine isnt wrecked, id say it was ok.
the odd thing is that a filter even without an adbv would still retain a bunch of oil. so how did your filter be empty of all oil? a mystery.
the odd thing is that a filter even without an adbv would still retain a bunch of oil. so how did your filter be empty of all oil? a mystery.
I'd like to know this too...
The job of the ADBV is not to prevent oil from draining from the filter but to keep the oil from draining from the engine through the filter. The output of the filter is the threaded hole. There's no valve there. The valve is on the intake side.
Good point. I wonder what the application is. Could it be that the engine has a ADBV above the filter and the filter is mounted where it drains? dwmcqueen, could you see a rubber seal inside the outer holes? It is possible on this application the filter doesn't need the ADBV, the Pure 1 didn't have one, but the quick lube Valvoline one had one to cover apps where it did need one.
thats a common misconception i see on these boards.
the job of the adbv is to keep oil in the filter.
its impossible to keep the upper end of the enghine full of oil when theres no oil pressure.
the job of the adbv is to keep oil in the filter.
its impossible to keep the upper end of the enghine full of oil when theres no oil pressure.
LOL - Guess that oil that pours out of the filter passage and oil pan when I loosen my filter must be coming from another dimension. The filter is mounted base up so it certainly is not coming from it!
its probably comming from the area between the pump and filter.
the crank mains leak oil out when the engines not running. sence the cylinderhead oil passages are connected to the crank main passages via the oil filter outlet hole, any oil up in the head leaks down to the mains and trickles out the main bearings.
given that this leaking isnt a quick thing, it could take a halfhour (just a guess) for the oil to leak out.
wix seems to agree with me as well, as i quote from their website:
Silicone Anti-Drainback Valve - Stays flexible in extreme temperatures, improves oil flow and keeps oil in filter to prevent engine destroying dry starts. Also provides lasting protection to meet new vehicle manufacturers longer recommended oil change schedules. Nitrile valves can harden and become ineffective over time.
Some WIX full-flow filters include anti-drainback and/or filter by-pass valves. These types of filters are identical to full-flow filters, except that a by-pass valve replaces the inner element support and an anti-drainback valve has been added. The Anti-Drainback Valve prevents oil from draining out of the filter inlet holes when the engine is shut off. It also provides seal between clean and dirty oil at the upper end cap. This is necessary in applications where the oil filter is mounted in a horizontal or inverted position.
which also confirms my theory that adbv isnt needed for filters in which the threadded end is facing up.
the crank mains leak oil out when the engines not running. sence the cylinderhead oil passages are connected to the crank main passages via the oil filter outlet hole, any oil up in the head leaks down to the mains and trickles out the main bearings.
given that this leaking isnt a quick thing, it could take a halfhour (just a guess) for the oil to leak out.
wix seems to agree with me as well, as i quote from their website:
Silicone Anti-Drainback Valve - Stays flexible in extreme temperatures, improves oil flow and keeps oil in filter to prevent engine destroying dry starts. Also provides lasting protection to meet new vehicle manufacturers longer recommended oil change schedules. Nitrile valves can harden and become ineffective over time.
Some WIX full-flow filters include anti-drainback and/or filter by-pass valves. These types of filters are identical to full-flow filters, except that a by-pass valve replaces the inner element support and an anti-drainback valve has been added. The Anti-Drainback Valve prevents oil from draining out of the filter inlet holes when the engine is shut off. It also provides seal between clean and dirty oil at the upper end cap. This is necessary in applications where the oil filter is mounted in a horizontal or inverted position.
which also confirms my theory that adbv isnt needed for filters in which the threadded end is facing up.
I'm done trying to reinvent the wheel... I guess the laws of physics don't apply to all...
[ July 17, 2003, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: MNgopher ]
[ July 17, 2003, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: MNgopher ]
No gravity around here
I guess that noone here has ever overfilled a glass while it was sitting on the kitchen table. It will spill. So will an full oil filter that has a certain volume of oil ABOVE it after shutdown.
My engine stays full of oil when using a good filter. Don't know why yours doesn't! I guess this might be dependent on the location of the filter and the actual engine oil flow. My engine must be more superior to yours.
Just because Wix left out vertical mount filters doesn't mean that you can draw a conclusion that ADBV isn't needed with Vmount filters. I see no agreement between you and Wix.
The ADBV has multiple jobs.
Preventing oil starvation(slow pressure buildup) on startup, preventing dirty oil from backwashing into pan, preventing clean postfilter oil from mixing with dirty prefilter oil, preventing that clatter on 1st starts that some orange filters are causing, preventing oil filter from draining empty, cushioning/directing oil flow throughout media....
BTW, I hate the Pureone filter. It caused more noise than the orange filter in several vehicles that I used it in. This is too bad since the cheaper proline/premium+ didn't create new engine noises.
I guess that noone here has ever overfilled a glass while it was sitting on the kitchen table. It will spill. So will an full oil filter that has a certain volume of oil ABOVE it after shutdown.
My engine stays full of oil when using a good filter. Don't know why yours doesn't! I guess this might be dependent on the location of the filter and the actual engine oil flow. My engine must be more superior to yours.
Just because Wix left out vertical mount filters doesn't mean that you can draw a conclusion that ADBV isn't needed with Vmount filters. I see no agreement between you and Wix.
The ADBV has multiple jobs.
Preventing oil starvation(slow pressure buildup) on startup, preventing dirty oil from backwashing into pan, preventing clean postfilter oil from mixing with dirty prefilter oil, preventing that clatter on 1st starts that some orange filters are causing, preventing oil filter from draining empty, cushioning/directing oil flow throughout media....
BTW, I hate the Pureone filter. It caused more noise than the orange filter in several vehicles that I used it in. This is too bad since the cheaper proline/premium+ didn't create new engine noises.
The ADBV arguement for a vertical mount filter is very interesting. The arguement for an ADBV seems very logical. But my camaro calls for a PF25 (or equiv.) which has no ADBV, and when I remove the filter (after it has set for a long while), oil still comes out from above the filter. I wonder, how long it takes to drain back through the filter?
And a moment of light!
The answer is it will take some time for the flow to work backwards since now the only energy is gravity, not a pump. It has to work its way through the filter material, which as we've seen in Bob's tests requires some energy since there is a pressure drop when driven by a pump. The amount of time will vary depending of the flow rate of the media and the viscosity of the oil. Since generally we change our oil warm, we haven't let that all night ot several days happen where the oil would make it back through.
Engines that have a built in oil filter bypass have filters without them.
Anyone want to guess if an engine, that doesn't need an ADBV, might have a check valve or possibly some other method (like a one way flowing oil pump)to keep oil where it needs to be.
Anyone want to guess if an engine, that doesn't need an ADBV, might have a check valve or possibly some other method (like a one way flowing oil pump)to keep oil where it needs to be.
I never really thought about that. The bypass valve is in the engine on my camaro, not the filter.
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