Full Flow Filter Replacement for Motorcraft FL-1HP

[porvdub]

Hello I have a Porsche 914 with a built up 4 cylinder, with a remote full flow filter, the bypass in the engine case blocked. I have been using a Motorcraft FL-1HP filter, it has a 600 psi burst strength, which my engine builder says I should have because of the full flow conversion. Well now I find that I cannot get that filter anymore, out of production..
So what filter is a good replacement?
I see WIX has two filters that cross reference to the motorcraft filter. wix 51515R, and wix 51622 I called wix and they told me that they do not have a burst pressure for the 51515R, but tell me that of the 51622 is 500 psi. That 500 psi maybe close enough, plus the 51622 filters to 28 um they told me, were as the 51515R filters only to 61 um.

So I was ready to order the wix 51622 from Summit Racing, but Summit calls the 51622 a "transmission filter".

So what gives? is this transmission filter ok to use for engine oil?

Is 28 um of filtration considered ok? Or is there a better filtration level that comes in a high burst pressure can that will be safe for my full flow system?

I also looked at the motorcraft fl-1A, which is what ford told me was the replacement for the discontinued FL-1HP, but it only has a 200 psi burst pressure, which I dont thunk I want.

Is the wix 51622 with 500 psi burst, and 28 um filter size the best I can do? Are there other compatible high pressure filters with a lower micron rating?

What do you use in this kind of application? (I know the fram hp1 has a high burst pressure, but I have had them fail internally, and refuse to run any fram after having three different fram filters fail on me in the past)

Getting this kind of info from the makers is very difficult. The motorcraft phone help was bad, she kept asking for my VIN number after I told her it was a custom motor install, then she wanted me to spell Porsche. she didnt get it, ugh!

 

[ZeeOSix]

What's the maximum oil pressure this engine makes? 600 PSI burst pressure it way up there, and probably not really a needed requirement.

Does your built up engine make any more oil pressure than a stock version? Does your built up engine's oil pump flow more than the stock version?

Are all the hoses going to the remote filter mount capable of 600 PSI burst pressure too?

What kind of oil filter did the stock engine require? Cartridge or spin-on?

 

[atikovi]

I have been using a Motorcraft FL-1HP filter, it has a 600 psi burst strength, which my engine builder says I should have because of the full flow conversion.

I can't imagine any engine making much more than 100 psi even with 20W50 at -40° on a cold start revving to 5,000 rpm. Your seals would blow out well before that. And doesn't the pump have a pressure release valve?

 

[porvdub]

Filter sees pump pressure, no relief in the system between the pump and filter. pump is highflow, blueprinted.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Filter sees pump pressure, no relief in the system between the pump and filter. pump is highflow, blueprinted.

No pressure relief system on the oil pump at all? Did someone disable the pump pressure relief valve? Living dangerously if that's the case.

You have a pressure gauge between the oil pump and filter? What's the max pressure seen?

 

[porvdub]

There is no pressure relief until past the filter. that is why it is called a full flow system, it all goes thru the filter. There is an oil bypass after the filter, that bypass is to direct high pressure to the bearings bypassing the cooler, and when pressure is lower thru the cooler prior to the bearings. This is an aircooled motor. The stock filter has been removed, this filter is plumbed directly to pump outlet. a very common procedure for the aircooled type1 and type 4 VW engines.

 

[OVERKILL]

There is no pressure relief until past the filter. that is why it is called a full flow system, it all goes thru the filter. There is an oil bypass after the filter, that bypass is to direct high pressure to the bearings bypassing the cooler, and when pressure is lower thru the cooler prior to the bearings. This is an aircooled motor. The stock filter has been removed, this filter is plumbed directly to pump outlet. a very common procedure for the aircooled type1 and type 4 VW engines.

All pumped engine lube systems are considered "full flow". The difference between bypass filtration and full flow filtration is that your standard oil filter has to experience the full volume of the oil pump, which is why there's typically a media bypass in the can itself or on the housing, so that the delta-P across the media doesn't exceed a reasonable level and either tear the media or crush the centre tube.

Bypass systems on the other hand, take a percentage of the oil flow and run it through an external, remote mounted filter that has no bypass, because it never has to experience full pump volume. These are of higher efficiency than your typical spin-on or cartridge filter and very popular on OTR trucks. Some older engines (Ford Y-Block for example) only had bypass filtration (and it wasn't high efficiency like modern systems) where only a portion of the oil going through the engine was run through the filter.

There are folks, like yourself, that will setup a remote full-flow system, basically fitting an adapter plate to the conventional oil filter mount and run large AN lines to a remote housing. This allows the use of larger, possibly more readily available filters. One typically chooses one that has an integrated media bypass if the original bypass was in the block, for the same caveats as noted above. This is common for the GM SBC, where the media/filter bypass was in the block, rather than in the filter like on an SBF.

Total system pressure is typically governed by a pressure relief valve on the pump itself that internally bypasses oil back into the feed side of the pump. This prevents oil pressure from hitting insanely high levels, typically during very cold starts or very high RPM. These vary in their calibration. Some older engines may not have one however, this may very well be the case in your application.

 

[ZeeOSix]

There is no pressure relief until past the filter. that is why it is called a full flow system, it all goes thru the filter. There is an oil bypass after the filter, that bypass is to direct high pressure to the bearings bypassing the cooler, and when pressure is lower thru the cooler prior to the bearings. This is an aircooled motor. The stock filter has been removed, this filter is plumbed directly to pump outlet. a very common procedure for the aircooled type1 and type 4 VW engines.

Even if the oiling system pressure relief valve is located after the filter, it's main purpose is to limit the maximum oil pressure in the entire oiling system.

I recall seeing some weird old VW oiling system schematic that showed the oiling system pressure relief basically at the "end" of the oiling system before it dumps back into the sump. They just have to calibrate a pressure relief valve there to regulate the maximum oil pressure close to the oil pump so the pump doesn't over pressure and blow something out.

Is this the basic oiling system you have on this air-cooled VW?

Oil Pressure Relief

Rob and Dave's aircooled Volkswagen pages. Shadetree mechanic articles to keep your beetle fweeming.

www.vw-resource.com

Full Flow Oiling. AIR-TECH

- Written by Steve Phillips for HotVWs Magazine - What does Full Flowing a case mean? Well what it refers to is drilling and tapping one of the oil galleys on the engine case for a return line.

wolfgangint.com

TheSamba.com :: Performance/Engines/Transmissions - View topic - Dual relief oiling system. How it works.

Classified ads, photos, shows, links, forums, and technical information for the Volkswagen automobile

www.thesamba.com

And as @OVERKILL mentioned above, all filters located right after the pump are "full flow" ... meaning they are not a bypass filter, but one were all the oil going into the oiling system goes through the filter first, regardless if the filter bypasses internally or not.

 

[Cyoungso1]

Fram or luberfiner hp1

 

[porvdub]

Even if the oiling system pressure relief valve is located after the filter, it's main purpose is to limit the maximum oil pressure in the entire oiling system.

I recall seeing some weird old VW oiling system schematic that showed the oiling system pressure relief basically at the "end" of the oiling system before it dumps back into the sump. They just have to calibrate a pressure relief valve there to regulate the maximum oil pressure close to the oil pump so the pump doesn't over pressure and blow something out.

Is this the basic oiling system you have on this air-cooled VW?

Oil Pressure Relief

Rob and Dave's aircooled Volkswagen pages. Shadetree mechanic articles to keep your beetle fweeming.

www.vw-resource.com

Full Flow Oiling. AIR-TECH

- Written by Steve Phillips for HotVWs Magazine - What does Full Flowing a case mean? Well what it refers to is drilling and tapping one of the oil galleys on the engine case for a return line.

wolfgangint.com

TheSamba.com :: Performance/Engines/Transmissions - View topic - Dual relief oiling system. How it works.

Classified ads, photos, shows, links, forums, and technical information for the Volkswagen automobile

www.thesamba.com

And as @OVERKILL mentioned above, all filters located right after the pump are "full flow" ... meaning they are not a bypass filter, but one were all the oil going into the oiling system goes through the filter first, regardless if the filter bypasses internally or not.

Thanks for info, per the second link you gave, second from last paragraph....

"One of the most common mistakes is a cheap tin oil filter. The oil pressure from the pump is high. It is not uncommon to blow up a cheap filter."

This is my concern, and is why a high strength can for the filter is recommended. The old FL 1HP can had a 500 or 600 psi strength, but I cant get that type anymore. many filter makers do not list the burst strength, So I am kind of stuck until I find a replacement with high burst strength. my engine builder and the linked paper both tell me to use a high strength filter, the problem is finding one. i called Ford and could not get an answer, called K and N and they told me burst strength is not rated. it is as if no one knows their burst strength, as if it is a trade secret.

 

[porvdub]

Fram or luberfiner hp1

Unfortunatly I wont use a Fram, I have had their HP1 internally fail on me, and likewise two other Fram filters fail on me. I have cut open dozens of used filters, and have found Fram to be consistently poorly made Lubefiner does not list burst strength, instead they give meaningless marketing hype " deep drawn steel for high burst strength" now what steel filter housing is not deep drawn steel? A meaningless statement, but I guess it sounds good if you are clueless to tha fact that most all filter housings are deep drawn steel.
I am looking for real data, not marking hype. This is so frustrating. In the old days manufacturers used to list this data, now it is all about slick marketing slogans, devoid of real specifications. UGH!

 

[bullwinkle]

Thanks for info, per the second link you gave, second from last paragraph....

"One of the most common mistakes is a cheap tin oil filter. The oil pressure from the pump is high. It is not uncommon to blow up a cheap filter."

This is my concern, and is why a high strength can for the filter is recommended. The old FL 1HP can had a 500 or 600 psi strength, but I cant get that type anymore. many filter makers do not list the burst strength, So I am kind of stuck until I find a replacement with high burst strength. my engine builder and the linked paper both tell me to use a high strength filter, the problem is finding one. i called Ford and could not get an answer, called K and N and they told me burst strength is not rated. it is as if no one knows their burst strength, as if it is a trade secret.

I don’t know what their burst pressure is, but the Bosch Distance Plus has been consistently the heaviest oil filter I have used, there’s no thicker, stronger baseplate around. I’ve never seen nor heard of one tearing, either. Edit:RA says the D3500 burst pressure is 450 PSI, not sure if that’s high enough or not.

 

[Cyoungso1]

Unfortunatly I wont use a Fram, I have had their HP1 internally fail on me, and likewise two other Fram filters fail on me. I have cut open dozens of used filters, and have found Fram to be consistently poorly made Lubefiner does not list burst strength, instead they give meaningless marketing hype " deep drawn steel for high burst strength" now what steel filter housing is not deep drawn steel? A meaningless statement, but I guess it sounds good if you are clueless to tha fact that most all filter housings are deep drawn steel.
I am looking for real data, not marking hype. This is so frustrating. In the old days manufacturers used to list this data, now it is all about slick marketing slogans, devoid of real specifications. UGH!

Understood. Spoke to Champ/LF tech just now and the HP1 is tested from 0-500psi on the hydrostatic test. Is does not fail at 500psi. They do not have a burst failure PSI listed. FYI their tech line is very helpful. They are the way WIX used to be. We use the LF HP1 in our transmission applications

 

[OVERKILL]

FL-1A replacements with synthetic media:
1. Donaldson P169071

Donaldson P169071

Donaldson P169071 - FILTRE À HUILE, À VISSER DÉBIT MAXIMUM

shop.donaldson.com

2. Fleetguard LF3487

Cummins Filtration - Catalog - Part Search

Both have very heavy cans and extremely good flowing media. Hopefully one of them will be able to give you can burst strength if you contact them.

 

[Cyoungso1]

FL-1A replacements with synthetic media:
1. Donaldson P169071

Donaldson P169071

Donaldson P169071 - FILTRE À HUILE, À VISSER DÉBIT MAXIMUM

shop.donaldson.com

2. Fleetguard LF3487

Cummins Filtration - Catalog - Part Search

Both have very heavy cans and extremely good flowing media. Hopefully one of them will be able to give you can burst strength if you contact them.

The FG is a good filter. We used it before the LF for transmissions

 

[OVERKILL]

The FG is a good filter. We used it before the LF for transmissions

Yes, I use that one, because of the Nanonet media, on our 351W inboard.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Thanks for info, per the second link you gave, second from last paragraph....

"One of the most common mistakes is a cheap tin oil filter. The oil pressure from the pump is high. It is not uncommon to blow up a cheap filter." This is my concern, and is why a high strength can for the filter is recommended. The old FL 1HP can had a 500 or 600 psi strength, but I cant get that type anymore. many filter makers do not list the burst strength, So I am kind of stuck until I find a replacement with high burst strength. my engine builder and the linked paper both tell me to use a high strength filter, the problem is finding one. i called Ford and could not get an answer, called K and N and they told me burst strength is not rated. it is as if no one knows their burst strength, as if it is a trade secret.

Just how high is the oil pressure? Have you measured it at the oil pressure sensor port right after the oil pump? The oil pressure in the system is suppose to be controlled by the "Oil Pressure Control Valve" - #2 in the schematic below. How do you know the pressure control valve (#2) is working correctly in your engine? What does VW say the maximum oil pressure spec should be ... ie, that will say what the max oil pressure the pressure control valve (#2) should be controlling the pressure in the main gallery too.

If there is 100s of PSI of pressure right after the oil pump, then that same oil pressure is inside the oil cooler ... and the oil cooler has no issues taking the same super high pressure of 100s of PSI?

Unfortunatly I wont use a Fram, I have had their HP1 internally fail on me ...

Failed how? Internal damage like torn media or a crushed center tube is caused by too much delta-p from flow, but I just can't see a tiny oil pump on an old air-cooled VW putting out 12+ GPM of oil flow with 20W-50 oil. If the burst pressure on an oil filter is say 500 PSI, and the oil flow rate through the filter was relatively low (meaning low delta-p across the filter), the center tube isn't going to be stressed, but the can will be. Oil pressure tries to expand the can. but delta-p from oil flow is what caused inward pressure on the media and center tube. Two separate force scenarios caused by two different things.

Is this setup similar to what you are using on your VW?

Vw Bug Full Flow Oil Filter System, Black AN Fittings-SS Hose-Flat Cam

Air-cooled Vw Bug Full Flow Oil Filter System. Oil Filter Kit Black AN Fittings, Stainless Hose, Oil Filter Adapter, Fram HP1 Filter & Flat Hi Volume Oil Pump!

www.mooreparts.com