Full Flow as a Bypass

[John With Beastly 302]

I'm thinking about plumbing in my 3/4-16 Full Flow filter mount on my 1945 Ford 2N Tractor to replace the original canister filter that takes a Wix 51010 bypass filter rated at only 32 microns and running a Full Flow like a M1-301 or a 51515 Wix.

Does running a Full Flow as a bypass cause any problems? I know I'm going to need to install a restrictor in the mount when I find the size of the restrictor in the original canister mount. I wouldn't think running a Full Flow as a Bypass causes problems being that the filter media is just under a much lower flow rate. Would the bypass valve in the FF still work if the FF plugged? If the FF media was plugged then the bypass valve would still open right? When the inlet psi is 30 psi and the filter is plugged with the FF bypass valve rated to open at around 8 psi, it would still open just the flow through the valve would be much lower right?

I would also think that having an ADBV really is no benefit in a FF running like a bypass and doesn't really cause a disadvantage except maybe a very slight bit of restriction right? I remember that a Donaldson P550020 is a FF oil filter without a ADBV and a bypass valve if I remember correctly so I'll have to see what that crosses to for a Wix and a M1.

 

[tommygunn]

Edit: Contemplation.

Its hard to say, a bypass is designed to work under huge PSI's, slowly filtering oil. A full flow in its place might simply be forced into bypass mode too often to filter appropriately.

 

[pcoxe]

I drove a '59 Chevy that had basically what you describe. The old 235cid Blue Flame 6 engines did not have oil filtration, just an add-on bypass filter. I agree with tommygunn's post: a late model filter will probably have an internal bypass which will open and bypass any filtering. You need a filter with no internal bypass whatsoever in it's construction.

 

[Jim Allen]

Beastly, you have a great plan, I think! Improving the filtration via a tighter filter is a good thing! I have seen several really old engines converted to full-flow filtration. With some engines it was fairly easy. With others it was quite complex.

True bypass filter elements, designed to supplement a full-flow, have high PSIDs because they are very tight filters. A full flow filter designed to be a primary doesn't have high efficiency generally (not all that much better than the 32 um you have now), so the PSID would still be low. Substituting a canister filter would be the same deal. It wouldn't open it's bypass any more in a bypass situation than it would if it was set up as a full-flow primary.... maybe less. In Beastly's case, where the filter is being used as a bypass primary, it's the same deal. Plus, it's only taking 10-15 percent of the flow at any given time, so it would take a LONG time to plug and go into bypass. You don't NEED an internal filter bypass in this case but I don't think it hurts to have one. Back in the day, people ran their primary bypass filters until they plugged or gave some sign that they were about to... such as a slight oil pressure increase (or you felt it as the engine warmed up and if it stayed cool when the engine was warm, you knew oil wasn't flowing).

Remember the 1959-68 Plymouth/Dodge flathead sixes, used in cars till about '62 and certain trucks to '68 (later for export)? They replaced the cartridge bypass filter with a modern canister in those last years. They used the same mounting pointfor the cartridge filters but had a bracket with a spin-on. Late '60s/early '70s F-head Jeep fours were the same thing.

 

[Kruse]

Originally Posted By: John With Beastly 302
I'm thinking about plumbing in my 3/4-16 Full Flow filter mount on my 1945 Ford 2N Tractor to replace the original canister filter......

I would also think that having an ADBV really is no benefit in a FF running like a bypass and doesn't really cause a disadvantage except maybe a very slight bit of restriction right?


I have an International "H" tractor that originally had a canister bypass. I put a Chevy 1 qt. filter on. (I think I'm using a QS #5 filter) I kept the restriction in the setup, milled the base flat so the gasket has a nice flat contact area and it works great. If you wanted to use a separate filter, I think there are some setups in the Wix catalog that have hoses attached to the base.

 

[John With Beastly 302]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
True bypass filter elements, designed to supplement a full-flow, have high PSIDs because they are very tight filters.


And Maybe I'll just install a Wix 51050 and a Wix mount and run it. Out of curiosity what is the media like in a Wix 51050? Is it the same thickness as a FF with just two little restrictors, or is it thicker. I doubt it's anything like a AMS Oil Bypass spin on. The 51050's 10 micron rating is a nominal rating right?

 

[Ken2]

The key will be to find the correct restriction so you aren't robbing oil from the engine. Some bypass set ups don't have an orifice, because the filter element has enough restriction to flow.

What's wrong with the original setup? Can you still find a bypass element that will work in that canister? If it has worked since 1945, why change? Now, if there was a way to add a full flow filter to the oil system....

 

[morris]

you need a fram C3, it is 2 micron. advance auto has them in stock

 

[John With Beastly 302]

Originally Posted By: morris
you need a fram C3, it is 2 micron. advance auto has them in stock


I looked into it and the 2 Micron is the Fram C3P. The C3 looks just like the wix 51010. Here are some pics.

http://www.framcatalog.com/PartDetail.aspx?b=F&pn=C3P

http://www.framcatalog.com/PartDetail.aspx?b=F&pn=C3

Fram has a cross reference guide and they listed the napa 1010 and 1026 cross to the C3P. I put 51026 in Wix's site and it came up as being obsolete so maybe they used to make a 2 micron version but I'm not sure. I have always been weary of fram filters but this one looks good and I really like the 2 micron rating verses the 32 micron rating of the wix 51010.

 

[Kruse]

Originally Posted By: John With Beastly 302
I have always been weary of fram filters but this one looks good and I really like the 2 micron rating verses the 32 micron rating of the wix 51010.


I have several antique tractors that have the bypass filtration system, and for the application you want, the Fram will be fine. Remember that for just about any application that you can see most of the media, the Fram is top-notch. Also, the actual amount of oil flowing through these bypass filters is so slow that there really isn't a chance that the oil will rip apart the media.
Actually, considering how tough these old tractors engines are, any filter you buy will be fine for it.

 

[morris]

my mistake i keep getting the c3 and the c3p mixed up, but like you said they ARE different. i have new metal canister for the C3, i think the number for it is C3-P that keeps me confused.

 

[morris]

i think the metal canaster pt no is not C2-P i think its F3-P , but NOT real sure.