Fuel Grades vs. MPG

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I am a little confused with how my owners manual suggests the octane grade:

"Use unleaded regular gasoline with an octane rating of at least 87 AKI (Anti-knock-index) number (Research octane number 91)."

Would my car benefit with using a higher octane than 87?
 
I've had "a" car that did best on 89 octane, one other that did best on anything that was 87 or lower and another that currently does best on 93 octane. One other that currently does best on 91 octane. And the other two that do best on 87 octane. All as far as MPG. But for most of my vehicles, 87 has been the best for them. With the higher octanes, I feel little or no performance from the butt dyno! Just measuring the MPG.

I have been measuring my MPG for over 30 years and I ususlly find in several tankfull of fuel consistantly that, the higher the octane the worst the MPG with no extra kick in the pants. I like to try about 4-5 tankfulls in a row. Yeah, this can get expensive but, how are you gona know!
 
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Originally Posted By: jigen
I am a little confused with how my owners manual suggests the octane grade:

"Use unleaded regular gasoline with an octane rating of at least 87 AKI (Anti-knock-index) number (Research octane number 91)."

Would my car benefit with using a higher octane than 87?


No. Only high compression engines require gasoline with a higher octane. Running lower grade gasoline through those engines will result in a slight decrease in power and mpgs.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
No, if the engine doesn't knock with regular 87 octane, the use of higher octane will not give your engine any benefit.


I think this is an over-generalization that isn't accurate in all cases.

For example, I had a 2001 Cadillac STS, with the Northstar engine. Earlier Northstars (I also had a '97) recommended premium, and I used premium in the '97. But in 2000, the "generation 2" Northstar came out, and the heads were improved and the recommended gasoline was now regular. So I ran regular in the '01. However, at the advice of some Cadillac gearheads, I tried running premium in it, and not only did power increase, but so did MPG. The MPG increased such that the cost/mile of the premium was close enough to that of regular that I just started running premium in it.

It never pinged or knocked on 87 octane. That's just because the knock control system was doing its job and retarding performance. Although the official recommendation was regular, the engine nevertheless responded well to premium fuel.

Many engines nowadays run at least 10:1 compression, and I suspect that although most every engine these days recommends regular, at least some might respond well to higher octanes of fuel.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
No, if the engine doesn't knock with regular 87 octane, the use of higher octane will not give your engine any benefit.


I think this is an over-generalization that isn't accurate in all cases.

For example, I had a 2001 Cadillac STS, with the Northstar engine. Earlier Northstars (I also had a '97) recommended premium, and I used premium in the '97. But in 2000, the "generation 2" Northstar came out, and the heads were improved and the recommended gasoline was now regular. So I ran regular in the '01. However, at the advice of some Cadillac gearheads, I tried running premium in it, and not only did power increase, but so did MPG. The MPG increased such that the cost/mile of the premium was close enough to that of regular that I just started running premium in it.

It never pinged or knocked on 87 octane. That's just because the knock control system was doing its job and retarding performance. Although the official recommendation was regular, the engine nevertheless responded well to premium fuel.

Many engines nowadays run at least 10:1 compression, and I suspect that although most every engine these days recommends regular, at least some might respond well to higher octanes of fuel.


Going higher can't hurt anything, right?
 
Originally Posted By: jigen
Going higher can't hurt anything, right?


I wouldn't say that either. I think it all depends on the vehicle, engine, environment, time in service, etc. I think there are too many variables to give one blanket recommendation.

Consider Chrysler TSB #14-08-97, Poor Driveability With High DI (Driveability Index) Fuel.

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:

Long cold start times, warm-up sags, hesitations, and driveway die outs. These symptoms are most noticeable and severe at moderate ambient temperatures between 4 - 27 degrees C (40 - 80 degrees F).

DISCUSSION:

Gasoline with a high Driveability Index (DI) can cause the above described symptoms. DI is a measure of the gasolines total volatility, or tendency to vaporize completely. A high DI number is less volatile than a low DI number. Most premium gasoline sold in the U.S. has a higher (worse) DI index than regular or mid-grade gasoline. Use of premium gasoline is NOT recommended for vehicles designed to run on 87 (R+M)/2 regular or 89 (R+M)/2 midgrade gasoline. High DI gasolines also cause higher emissions for the same reasons they cause driveability problems.

For vehicles that require an octane rating of 91 (R+M)/2, premium is recommended, or possibly required. Using premium fuel with a higher than recommended octane rating is not recommended. Owners who experience fuel related cold start and warm up driveability problems should try a gasoline with the recommended octane rating or different brands of gasoline until they find one that provides good performance.

The octane quality of gasoline is only a measure of its resistance to spark knock. The use of higher than recommended octane gasoline under normal operating conditions does NOT improve startability, idle quality, fuel economy, driveability, acceleration, engine durability, or emissions. In fact, most higher octane gasolines available in the U.S. have higher DI values than regular gasoline. Customers are most likely to experience poor driveability with premium gasoline than with regular.

Some vehicles, such as Viper, Prowler, 5.9L Grand Cherokee, 2.0L Turbo Talon, and 2.0L DOHC Neon have been specifically designed to take advantage of higher octane. These vehicles may have higher compression ratios, and/or more aggressive spark calibrations which provide optimum performance with the specified higher octane. However, other vehicles which are not specifically designed and calibrated to take advantage of higher octane will not benefit from higher octane.

Some vehicles may experience light spark knock in situations such as trailer towing or climbing steep sustained grades. Light knock or "ping" under these conditions is not harmful. However, if the customer is concerned about light knock under these circumstances, the use of 89 (R+M)/2 or even 91 (R+M)/2 premium gasoline may be temporarily warranted. If a vehicle is experiencing heavy spark knock on gasoline with its designed octane rating, this may be an indication of excessive combustion chamber deposits, or some other problem. Combustion chamber deposits can be removed with Mopar Combustion Chamber Conditioner p/n 04318001. Standard diagnostic procedures may help in identifying other potential causes of excessive knock.

Some gasoline marketers may advertise that their premium gasoline contains extra detergent additives. Under provisions of the Clean Air Act, ALL gasoline sold in the U.S. must contain effective deposit control additives. Nevertheless, if fuel injector or intake valve deposits are suspected of contributing to poor performance, occasional use of Mopar Fuel Injector Clean Up p/n 04549613 is a much less expensive way to maintain engine cleanliness than regular use of premium gasoline.
 
Interesting. So when a manufacturer recommends "at least" 87 octane, they don't recommend premium (even when nothing is stated about not to use premium).

I just got the impression when they say to use at least 87, a higher octane could possibly benefit me. I guess not.
 
Originally Posted By: jigen
I am a little confused with how my owners manual suggests the octane grade:

"Use unleaded regular gasoline with an octane rating of at least 87 AKI (Anti-knock-index) number (Research octane number 91)."

Would my car benefit with using a higher octane than 87?

Originally Posted By: jigen
Going higher can't hurt anything, right?


I assume you're talking about your Versa? Dude, it's an economy car. Economy cars are, by definition, cars that are cheap to buy, own, and maintain. Therefore, they are DESIGNED to run on cheap 87 octane gas. It wouldn’t make any sense to build a car that is supposed to be cheap to own and make it require expensive premium gas would it? Notice how the only vehicles that require premium are generally expensive luxury and/or high performance cars where the automaker has decided that if a person is willing to spend $40-50k (or more) on a high performance machine, they probably wouldn’t mind spending the extra money on premium gas. The rest of the vehicle population (roughly 95%) is designed for regular.
 
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: jigen
I am a little confused with how my owners manual suggests the octane grade:

"Use unleaded regular gasoline with an octane rating of at least 87 AKI (Anti-knock-index) number (Research octane number 91)."

Would my car benefit with using a higher octane than 87?

Originally Posted By: jigen
Going higher can't hurt anything, right?


I assume you're talking about your Versa? Dude, it's an economy car. Economy cars are, by definition, cars that are cheap to buy, own, and maintain. Therefore, they are DESIGNED to run on cheap 87 octane gas. It wouldn’t make any sense to build a car that is supposed to be cheap to own and make it require expensive premium gas would it? Notice how the only vehicles that require premium are generally expensive luxury and/or high performance cars where the automaker has decided that if a person is willing to spend $40-50k (or more) on a high performance machine, they probably wouldn’t mind spending the extra money on premium gas. The rest of the vehicle population (roughly 95%) is designed for regular.


Well just for the record our Rabbit 2.5l I5 required 87 oct as expected but "recommended" 91 for improved performance. I can't say the few times a did run 91 oct I noticed a difference, maybe a tad smoother but nothing to right home about. The car made 150HP on 87 so it isn't magically making 200HP on 91.

The best thing is to experiment and see if you really do get better fuel economy or better performance. However feeding it high octane fuel just because you "think" it is better gasoline, well thats just foolish.

"A fool and his money are soon parted."
 
Originally Posted By: jigen
I am a little confused with how my owners manual suggests the octane grade:

"Use unleaded regular gasoline with an octane rating of at least 87 AKI (Anti-knock-index) number (Research octane number 91)."

Would my car benefit with using a higher octane than 87?


The confusion comes from different ways of measuring octane. AKI is used in the US, and it's defined as the average of the research octane number (RON) and motor octane number (MON). A lot of times at pumps you'll see something about R+M/2. That's what this is referring to.

As you can guess, a given gasoline will have a higher RON than MON.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
No, if the engine doesn't knock with regular 87 octane, the use of higher octane will not give your engine any benefit.


More to the point...if it doesn't suffer from Knock Retard on 87, higher will do nothing.

KR can be there, long before you hear it.

Never heard my 3VZE in my 4Runner knock ever, but premium always paid for itself
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
No, if the engine doesn't knock with regular 87 octane, the use of higher octane will not give your engine any benefit.


More to the point...if it doesn't suffer from Knock Retard on 87, higher will do nothing.

KR can be there, long before you hear it.

Never heard my 3VZE in my 4Runner knock ever, but premium always paid for itself


^^ Well said.
 
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Originally Posted By: jigen
I am a little confused with how my owners manual suggests the octane grade:

"Use unleaded regular gasoline with an octane rating of at least 87 AKI (Anti-knock-index) number (Research octane number 91)."

Would my car benefit with using a higher octane than 87?


The confusion comes from different ways of measuring octane. AKI is used in the US, and it's defined as the average of the research octane number (RON) and motor octane number (MON). A lot of times at pumps you'll see something about R+M/2. That's what this is referring to.

As you can guess, a given gasoline will have a higher RON than MON.


In addition to this:
MFG's write in their OM about using a specific octane. But, if your ever traveling out of town and just happen to look at the fuel gague or the low fuel light comes on and you need to stop and get gas anywhere, the MFG's build in some safety should that particular filling station be out of the fuel grade that you use. You may have to use another octane/grade of gas just to get on your way.
 
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Originally Posted By: jigen
I am a little confused with how my owners manual suggests the octane grade:

"Use unleaded regular gasoline with an octane rating of at least 87 AKI (Anti-knock-index) number (Research octane number 91)."

Would my car benefit with using a higher octane than 87?


The confusion comes from different ways of measuring octane. AKI is used in the US, and it's defined as the average of the research octane number (RON) and motor octane number (MON). A lot of times at pumps you'll see something about R+M/2. That's what this is referring to.

As you can guess, a given gasoline will have a higher RON than MON.


Exaxtly. 91 Research octane = 87 AKI.
 
I'm running an experiment in my Subie right now, I've always run 87 octane in it, which is recommended for the car. However for max performance, the manuals says to run 91 octane. I'm gonna run 91 octane for 3 tanks, see if there is a difference. If not, back to 87 octane.

The car has 10:1 compression, but I live at 8500 feet and do most of my driving between 6 and 10,000 feet.
 
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