Fuel additives for ethanol flex fuel

Whenever someone mentions it, I always wonder what is it in the upper cylinder that isn't being lubed and needs the additive?
 
kschachn said:
Whenever someone mentions it, I always wonder what is it in the upper cylinder that isn't being lubed and needs the additive?
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Injectors, valve components. Anything relying on gasoline for lubricity.

LordNilesStandish said:
What are some good fuel additives for flex fuel up to about e50?
Stabilisers, upper cylinder lube?
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There's a bunch of products out there, some are the usual snake oil solvents (Lucas fuel treatment) , some are corrosion-inhibitors (Sta-bil), and some are essentially very thick oils (Klotz Uplon, Power Plus Top Lube).

The only ones I've seen get recommendations from people who've torn apart motors after using them are the latter. I think good filtration and more frequent oil changes are better though.
 
Every owners manual I've ever seen for a flex-fuel car says not to use any fuel additives with E85, only use them with regular unleaded. I'm sure that the additives are designed to dissolve into a petroleum product, not alcohol.
 
scrllock said:
Yes, very much so. Probably a main reason that alcohol fuels accelerate wear.
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Interesting. I would have thought all short chains would be somewhat close. Gasoline is a poor lubricant too but fuel injectors don’t benefit from additional lubrication.

So that means any flex-fuel vehicle is at risk here ?
 
kschachn said:
Interesting. I would have thought all short chains would be somewhat close. Gasoline is a poor lubricant too but fuel injectors don’t benefit from additional lubrication.

So that means any flex-fuel vehicle is at risk here ?
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At risk? No, I assume that if a vehicle is sold as an FFV it's engineered with ethanol-aware OLM/OCI and better filtration.

The study I remember showed the best lubricity (i.e. lowest CoF) at E10, with friction increasing as E% went up, as well as with increasing water content (ethanol is hygroscopic). I'll see if I can find it again. I think the additives that are sold as stopping the reaction from water contamination are almost certainly a scam though, even PF debunked this years ago.

dadto2 said:
Every owners manual I've ever seen for a flex-fuel car says not to use any fuel additives with E85, only use them with regular unleaded. I'm sure that the additives are designed to dissolve into a petroleum product, not alcohol.
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These are additives specifically for alcohol fuels, not the regular fuel system cleaner products (usually just a high dose of solvents and/or PEA). They dissolve into ethanol just fine, that part isn't really in question.
 
LordNilesStandish said:
Is there an industry standard upper cylinder lube for ethanol fuels?
Kind of like an equivalent to Techron.
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Techron we know to be effective since PEA is well-proven.


https://motoiq.com/top-lube-for-e85/2/

The ones mentioned there are the heavy oil type, I've seen shops using those (power plus, klotz, redline, etc.). Not really clear if they do much besides quiet down injectors. I think best practice is a good in-line fuel filter and pump gas every few fill-ups.
 
scrllock said:
The study I remember showed the best lubricity (i.e. lowest CoF) at E10, with friction increasing as E% went up, as well as with increasing water content (ethanol is hygroscopic). I'll see if I can find it again. I think the additives that are sold as stopping the reaction from water contamination are almost certainly a scam though, even PF debunked this years ago.
Click to expand...
No additive is going to "get rid of water" in an ethanol-laced gasoline. At best the additive increases the quantity of water held in solution where you don't see it. It still gets carried through the engine.
 
GrumpyCat said:
No additive is going to "get rid of water" in an ethanol-laced gasoline. At best the additive increases the quantity of water held in solution where you don't see it. It still gets carried through the engine.
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Oxygenates make water miscible with hydrocarbons. So it should blend evenly as long as it doesn't reach some saturation point. It should vaporize pretty easily. And obviously vaporized water isn't a problem because that's what an internal combustion engine produces anyway.

I remember Red Line claimed that their water remover converted water to tiny suspended droplets and lubricated such water. Not sure what to make of it, especially with the claim that it didn't work like alcohols where there needed to be large quantities to allow a small amount of water to blend.. But yeah the idea is that water doesn't actually get removed but allowed to mix rather than just pool somewhere That shouldn't an issue with E85 though. I got some of that really cheap and I used to prepare older Red Line bottles of with SI-1 and Red Line water remover enough for a fillup. It would turn all cloudy when it mixed together.
 
scrllock said:
Techron we know to be effective since PEA is well-proven.


https://motoiq.com/top-lube-for-e85/2/

The ones mentioned there are the heavy oil type, I've seen shops using those (power plus, klotz, redline, etc.). Not really clear if they do much besides quiet down injectors. I think best practice is a good in-line fuel filter and pump gas every few fill-ups.
Click to expand...
Thanks!
You know she blew that engine right?
 
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