Fuchs Titan ATF 5000 / 6000.

[ecco123]

As I said before, I'm looking for an affordable Dexron III or better fully synthetic ATF.

I found a good deal with an industrial distributor of Fuchs, that can sell me a 20 liter can of Fuchs Titan ATF for less 1/3 of the price I'd pay buying 1 liter cans.

There are two versions that I'm looking at:


-The Titan 5000 apears in the Technical data sheet as fully synthetic heavy duty ATF, but is rated Dexron IID / IIE and, although in the dipstick of my car is printed "use only Dexron II", the man that rebuilt the transmision strongly recommended to use always minimum Dexron III as it is a big improvent over Dexron II, that "is completely obsolete".

-The technical data sheet of the Titan 6000 Dexron VI says Synthetic, but not fully Synthetic or heavy duty.

Links:

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-967-fuchs-titan-atf-5000-sl-fully-synthetic-heavy-duty-atf.aspx

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-968-fuchs-titan-atf-6000-sl-latest-synthetic-atf.aspx



I rang Fuchs and they said that both 5000 and 6000 would perfectly do the job for my transmission. They also said the 6000 is fully synthetic also (very strange they don't mention in the Technical data sheet), but advised to use the 5000 better as it's tougher and Dexron II is far enough for my transmission whatever it has been rebuilt or not.


I don't know what to do really as the other guy insisted not to use Dexron II.


What would you advise?

 

[Cup of Joe]

What about some of Fuchs other offerings? Can they offer you any of these that meet your spec?

=atf]atf

 

[ecco123]

Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
What about some of Fuchs other offerings? Can they offer you any of these that meet your spec?

=atf]atf



Thank you TaterandNoodles, yes, I could get any of those (except the 5005, that doesn't appear in the list they gave me), but only TITAN 6000 SL and TITAN 5000 SL are synthetic.

 

[Falcon_LS]

The 5000 SL is a decent ATF, I would personally go with that given the choice.

 

[Cup of Joe]

If the 6000 is synthetic it is up to you to pick between these 2. Which spec do you want to follow? Why not run the options past your transmission guy as well?

 

[ecco123]

The 6000 is synthetic, but I don't know if it is fully synthetic, the guy I talked to said so, but the fact that the 5000 is advertised as fully synthetic in its technical data sheet while the 6000 doesn't makes me suspicious. I guess it's going to be hard to find out for sure. Also, the 5000 is a bit dearer.

I already contacted the transmission guy, and he told me again to use a fully synthetic Dexron III and recommended Amsoil (of course, he sells Amsoil and knows is the only oil available here that clearly meets those two requirements).

The problem is that Amsoil is going to cost me three times as much as Fuchs, despite in this website Fuchs is quite dearer:

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-1052-amsoil-synthetic-automatic-transmission-fluid-atf.aspx

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-968-fuchs-titan-atf-6000-sl-latest-synthetic-atf.aspx

 

[Cup of Joe]

That is some serious cost per litre. If Gary or Pablo cannot get it to you any cheaper and the Fuchs is a better price per litre I don't see the problem. You can buy enough Fuchs for 1 fill and see how you like it. If its cheap enough you can always run a relatively short change.

I use conventional Mercon/Dex III in my Ford F150 E4OD transmission that has seen use offroad in 4 wheel drive high and low. I have used it to tow 14k lbs (roughly 6k kgs) of sand and dump trailer offroad. While still on the same ATF fluid I have towed loaded car trailers on the highway and hauled 1500 lbs (700 kg) of fuel oil in the bed of the truck on the highway. I actually damaged the front and rear bearings while transporting the oil. I hit a section of road at a train crossing that had colapsed. I did all that and allot more on the same load of conventional mercon/dexron III I bought on sale. I don't think I have a quart newer then 2004 in the garage or the trucks transmission.

Recently the transmission started shifting a bit slow and soft so I pulled one of the cooler lines and let the transmission pump out the ATF until it was pumping air. I then refilled the sump and pumped it out again. After this go round I re-attached the cooler line and refilled the transmission. It has been shifting much better every since. The fluid did not smell burnt but it had a hard life. The last time I changed the fluid and filter in this truck was 3 years ago I do believe.

The moral is a little fresh fluid can make a world of difference to a automatic transmission. Whether the fluid was synthetic or not really did not matter.

 

[ecco123]

Thank you TarentandNoodles.

I agree that fresh fluid is what matters and yes, I'm a little obsessed with it, LOL, but I already burned my transmission once and, after an expeeeensive rebuild almost did it again so I'm a bit paranoic about it's health.

Note that I use the car mainly for african trips with lots of sand driving, sometimes pushing the engine to the limit and with the truck loaded to the roof. So we could say on those trips the transmission is under severe use.

Anyway, I won't be paying those crazy prices and that's what I want to get Fuchs that I can get for a very good price.

The only question is which one to choose?, 5000 SL or 6000 SL.

I still haven't got it clear so if you can add anything else that could be helpful it would be great.

 

[Cup of Joe]

Originally Posted By: ecco123

Note that I use the car mainly for african trips with lots of sand driving, sometimes pushing the engine to the limit and with the truck loaded to the roof. So we could say on those trips the transmission is under severe use.


You should have shared that with the board straight away. I can add something or rather you can. If the ______ does not have an oil cooler already this sounds like a prime candidate if I ever heard of one. I would want a transmission cooler with an electric fan and a deeper pan to add capacity or possibly a deep pan that is also a cooler. In the kind of use you just discribed you cannot over cool a transmission.

http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/mercha...e=derale-fan-HD
http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/mercha...Code=pan-cooler

If Fuchs says that the 6000 is synthetic you can ask them for a bit more information. For instance what base oils are used in the 5000 and 6000? If their 6000 has similar base oil composition to the 5000 then the 2 would be fairly equal except for the additives.

If Falcon_LS is using their ATF he may have an opinion.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1529621
Another thread that could be of interest.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1143614

 

[ecco123]

What a coincidence you link me to bulkpart, there is where I bought my Tru-Cool Heavy Duty cooler:

http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/mercha...Product_Count=5

The improvement after installing it was huge, now my transmission runs cool all the time (though I haven't tried in Africa yet). I'm very satisfied with the product and with the bulkpart service. They made a mistake (overcharged me), and they sent me the extra money back and sent a cold weather bypass for free as a compensation:

http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/mercha...Product_Count=7

Anyway, on summer I disconnect the cold weather bypass cause it opens a little bit late in my opinion.

I've been thinking into installing two 6" fans with an inboard switch to use at low speed, but they will also restrict the flow when they are not running so I'm not sure if I'll finally install them or not (or maybe install only one).


Back to the oil, I will send an email to Fuchs USA to see if they tell me the same as the spanish dealer. Also about base oils as you suggest.

Those links are very interesting. FalconLS already said he would go with the 5000.

Thank you very much TarentandNoodles for all your help and interest.

 

[Cup of Joe]

I would use a thermostat along with a switch on the interior if you want to be able to run the fan while the engine is off. With the thermostat the fan is idiot proof. The fan will come on to cool the fluid even if you forget to flip the switch and it will turn the fan off if you walk away while it is running. Using the interior switch as an overide can be nice so you can start cooling before you start working the fluid hard.

http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/mercha...Product_Count=2

I have a external filter and plate cooler on my aircooled VW that helps keep the engine oil cool. But it does not have a fan and without air movement the cooler gets just as hot as the engine. The fans do help and at speed there is plenty of air passing through the coolers even with them in place. If the cooler is mounted infront of the radiator and you have a good engine fan then you really do not need one. The fans add allot of mounting flexiblity.