show that prices are due to market forces:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704187604576289572840753558.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704187604576289572840753558.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
FTC report on oil prices
- Thread starter Tempest
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Common stock and commodities are totally different things. You buy stock in Exxon/Mobil and it's a piece of paper (or rather probably just some electrons and magnetized code on a disk drive somewhere) that says you have a piece of their action. You buy gold, oil, pork bellies, etc, and you have a piece of paper that is tied to an actual chunk of stuff in some warehouse somewhere. Commodities investing for products that people need and use is very flawed in my opinion and I don't think I should have to pay $5/gallon for gas later this summer just because people are betting on future supply and demand.
Same thing goes for food commodities. It's just not cool to gamble on stuff people need. Stocks are totally different.
If no commodity trades is allowed then how is the price determined ? Oil refineries like Valero do not produce any crude oil, they buy oil to refine to gas, diesel ... they need to have a sturdy supply of oil at the price they think they can make a profit in the next several months or years, how/where do they buy crude oil ? Same thing for companies producing Ethanol, how/where do they buy corn ?
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
If no commodity trades is allowed then how is the price determined ? Oil refineries like Valero do not produce any crude oil, they buy oil to refine to gas, diesel ... they need to have a sturdy supply of oil at the price they think they can make a profit in the next several months or years, how/where do they buy crude oil ? Same thing for companies producing Ethanol, how/where do they buy corn ?
I don't think anyone it saying real consumers shouldn't be in the commmodity markets to secure the lowest price. That would be supply and demand at work.
If no commodity trades is allowed then how is the price determined ? Oil refineries like Valero do not produce any crude oil, they buy oil to refine to gas, diesel ... they need to have a sturdy supply of oil at the price they think they can make a profit in the next several months or years, how/where do they buy crude oil ? Same thing for companies producing Ethanol, how/where do they buy corn ?
I don't think anyone it saying real consumers shouldn't be in the commmodity markets to secure the lowest price. That would be supply and demand at work.
Originally Posted By: zanzabar
Common stock and commodities are totally different things. You buy stock in Exxon/Mobil and it's a piece of paper (or rather probably just some electrons and magnetized code on a disk drive somewhere) that says you have a piece of their action. You buy gold, oil, pork bellies, etc, and you have a piece of paper that is tied to an actual chunk of stuff in some warehouse somewhere. Commodities investing for products that people need and use is very flawed in my opinion and I don't think I should have to pay $5/gallon for gas later this summer just because people are betting on future supply and demand.
Same thing goes for food commodities. It's just not cool to gamble on stuff people need. Stocks are totally different.
You can wreck someone's life just as easily buying stock in a company. The Board of Directors you vote in can decide to shutter a factory and move to China.
Common stock and commodities are totally different things. You buy stock in Exxon/Mobil and it's a piece of paper (or rather probably just some electrons and magnetized code on a disk drive somewhere) that says you have a piece of their action. You buy gold, oil, pork bellies, etc, and you have a piece of paper that is tied to an actual chunk of stuff in some warehouse somewhere. Commodities investing for products that people need and use is very flawed in my opinion and I don't think I should have to pay $5/gallon for gas later this summer just because people are betting on future supply and demand.
You can wreck someone's life just as easily buying stock in a company. The Board of Directors you vote in can decide to shutter a factory and move to China.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
show that prices are due to market forces:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704187604576289572840753558.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
What is news about that?
The market force is screwed up by too many people being in it that shouldn't be.
show that prices are due to market forces:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704187604576289572840753558.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
What is news about that?
The market force is screwed up by too many people being in it that shouldn't be.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
If no commodity trades is allowed then how is the price determined ? Oil refineries like Valero do not produce any crude oil, they buy oil to refine to gas, diesel ... they need to have a sturdy supply of oil at the price they think they can make a profit in the next several months or years, how/where do they buy crude oil ? Same thing for companies producing Ethanol, how/where do they buy corn ?
If there were a true "free market" system the price would be determined by what it costs to make any given product. Unfortunately with all the rigging of markets and currencies that hasn't been the case in decades and probably centuries.
A true free market sets the price. There never should have been a stock market. We don't need one. Wall Street and the mega banks are the source of all of our problems right now not only with oil prices but everything financial.
We were far better off with 10's of thousands of private farms and ranchers than we are now with Con-Agra, ADM and the Department of Agriculture. The same goes for energy companies.
If no commodity trades is allowed then how is the price determined ? Oil refineries like Valero do not produce any crude oil, they buy oil to refine to gas, diesel ... they need to have a sturdy supply of oil at the price they think they can make a profit in the next several months or years, how/where do they buy crude oil ? Same thing for companies producing Ethanol, how/where do they buy corn ?
If there were a true "free market" system the price would be determined by what it costs to make any given product. Unfortunately with all the rigging of markets and currencies that hasn't been the case in decades and probably centuries.
A true free market sets the price. There never should have been a stock market. We don't need one. Wall Street and the mega banks are the source of all of our problems right now not only with oil prices but everything financial.
We were far better off with 10's of thousands of private farms and ranchers than we are now with Con-Agra, ADM and the Department of Agriculture. The same goes for energy companies.
What ? No comments on crude dropping near $10 on a stronger dollar !
Ohhhh those wicked speculators - oh wait a minute they lose money on this !
Must be a conspiracy against them !! That's it !!!!
Ohhhh those wicked speculators - oh wait a minute they lose money on this !
Must be a conspiracy against them !! That's it !!!!
Originally Posted By: Trvlr500
We were far better off with 10's of thousands of private farms and ranchers than we are now with Con-Agra, ADM and the Department of Agriculture. The same goes for energy companies.
So you want to go back to the early 1800s where nearly everyone lived in a 500 square foot cottage with no electricity or plumbing, had an acre of land that they grew crops on to feed their family, and used whale oil to fuel their lanterns. You do that and tell me how you like living that way after a few months. Since you won't have a computer, make sure you don't live too far away from the "big city" so you can walk into town and log on and report back on the library computer.
We were far better off with 10's of thousands of private farms and ranchers than we are now with Con-Agra, ADM and the Department of Agriculture. The same goes for energy companies.
So you want to go back to the early 1800s where nearly everyone lived in a 500 square foot cottage with no electricity or plumbing, had an acre of land that they grew crops on to feed their family, and used whale oil to fuel their lanterns. You do that and tell me how you like living that way after a few months. Since you won't have a computer, make sure you don't live too far away from the "big city" so you can walk into town and log on and report back on the library computer.
Originally Posted By: bruno
What ? No comments on crude dropping near $10 on a stronger dollar !
Ohhhh those wicked speculators - oh wait a minute they lose money on this !
Must be a conspiracy against them !! That's it !!!!
Thats good...some got what they deserved for jacking it up so high.....
What ? No comments on crude dropping near $10 on a stronger dollar !
Ohhhh those wicked speculators - oh wait a minute they lose money on this !
Must be a conspiracy against them !! That's it !!!!
Thats good...some got what they deserved for jacking it up so high.....
Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
Originally Posted By: Trvlr500
We were far better off with 10's of thousands of private farms and ranchers than we are now with Con-Agra, ADM and the Department of Agriculture. The same goes for energy companies.
So you want to go back to the early 1800s where nearly everyone lived in a 500 square foot cottage with no electricity or plumbing, had an acre of land that they grew crops on to feed their family, and used whale oil to fuel their lanterns. You do that and tell me how you like living that way after a few months. Since you won't have a computer, make sure you don't live too far away from the "big city" so you can walk into town and log on and report back on the library computer.
It wouldn't be that way at all. Having huge global companies runing our food and energy industries takes away the REAL free market. Then you have a company that is so huge they can buy the legislation they want it doesn't end up well for the masses.
That is what we have now. Companies that are based off shore, don't pay taxes here but have complete control over our government and the legislation that is passed.
One perfect example on a completely different subject is JB Hunt promoting the use of computers in every semi in the country. They can afford the lost revenue that it costs while smaller companies can't. The smaller companies will go out of business giving JB and the other mega trucking companies more market share.
The energy companies and the huge food producers do exactly the same thing. We had a lot more freedom years ago before this country turned into an oligarchy and far healthier food to eat I might add. There are "COOP" signs all over the country. That is what happenes when huge corporations can buy the legislation they want. The smaller producers have to give up most or all of their ownership.
Originally Posted By: Trvlr500
We were far better off with 10's of thousands of private farms and ranchers than we are now with Con-Agra, ADM and the Department of Agriculture. The same goes for energy companies.
So you want to go back to the early 1800s where nearly everyone lived in a 500 square foot cottage with no electricity or plumbing, had an acre of land that they grew crops on to feed their family, and used whale oil to fuel their lanterns. You do that and tell me how you like living that way after a few months. Since you won't have a computer, make sure you don't live too far away from the "big city" so you can walk into town and log on and report back on the library computer.
It wouldn't be that way at all. Having huge global companies runing our food and energy industries takes away the REAL free market. Then you have a company that is so huge they can buy the legislation they want it doesn't end up well for the masses.
That is what we have now. Companies that are based off shore, don't pay taxes here but have complete control over our government and the legislation that is passed.
One perfect example on a completely different subject is JB Hunt promoting the use of computers in every semi in the country. They can afford the lost revenue that it costs while smaller companies can't. The smaller companies will go out of business giving JB and the other mega trucking companies more market share.
The energy companies and the huge food producers do exactly the same thing. We had a lot more freedom years ago before this country turned into an oligarchy and far healthier food to eat I might add. There are "COOP" signs all over the country. That is what happenes when huge corporations can buy the legislation they want. The smaller producers have to give up most or all of their ownership.
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Very good article that explains the real reason oil is so expensive in dollar terms. Speculators? 'Just a ruse'.
http://www.projo.com/opinion/contributors/content/CT_oil6_05-06-11_4QNSTEC_v9.371dc50.html
http://www.projo.com/opinion/contributors/content/CT_oil6_05-06-11_4QNSTEC_v9.371dc50.html
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