Free charging at work?

[Trav]

One employer of mine provided monthly parking in a pay parking garage where it would have otherwise been $20 a day. So I suppose the fair market value of employee parking should be taxable income too. That’s the logical extension of your proposal.

And I suppose employers would love a requirement to obtain specialty equipment to account for every single perk. Maybe snacks and coffee dispensed from vending machines with key cards to account for taxable benefits.

Or maybe just treat it like a de minimis benefit like pretty much every company does these days.

There has been discussions about formally rolling a certain amount as a “qualified transportation fringe benefit”. However, this would be something like providing a company-paid ChargePoint card. It’s my understanding that if there’s something like free customer EV charging, employees are free to access the same under tax rules.

To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to include electric charging of certain vehicles as a qualified transportation fringe benefit excluded from gross income.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/BILLS-114s3450is/pdf/BILLS-114s3450is.pdf

There are a lot more of them on the road today than in 1986 so yes they should pass that now.

Hoping for more taxes? The Sons of Liberty would be disappointed in some of you guys.

I hate taxes as much as anybody but these owners are free riding on everybody's back. Who is going to make up the revenue loss?
The more ev's there are the more grid improvement is going to be needed because of them. IMO they should pay a significantly higher electric rate to make up for the increased cost. No tax benefits, no cash incentives to buy one or put solar panels in on the taxpayers dime, no free electricity.

 

[Nmr1981]

I wish my work would offer this. We can’t get a faculty lounge with a sink in it or a water cooler. Although I’m not sold on EVs and I am not looking to get one anytime soon but this would certainly change the calculus for me, free fuel Fridays has a nice ring to it.

 

[meadows]

I was always unhappy about the free coffee. I drank sodas instead of coffee and did not get them free.

 

[UncleDave]

I was always unhappy about the free coffee. I drank sodas instead of coffee and did not get them free.

Might as well keep the list going.....

I wonder if those that dont bring lunch or soda are unhappy about the free refrigeration and cleaning of them by the facilities staff?

I wonder how those that don't reheat anything at lunch feel about the provided microwaves and energy that go into reheating others lunches on top of having to inhale the odors of their sustenance?

 

[Vercingetorix]

I had to pay tax on the provided for lawyer, whether I used that lawyer or not. The lawyer was on retainer and paid for for small things like wills or traffic tickets.

 

[y_p_w]

I was always unhappy about the free coffee. I drank sodas instead of coffee and did not get them free.

Then you’re working in the wrong place. Once place I worked at we made weekly trips to Costco to stock the fridge and pantry. A friend worked at Microsoft in Redmond and took us in once where they were allowed to just grab sodas/milk or make coffee. But there nobody to make espresso on a weekend.

I’ve been a visitor doing business at Intel. That was weird. Direct-hire employees (including interns) could get free coffee or beverages (including sodas on tap) at the cafeteria. The cashiers were supposed to look at badges and not charge for employees. Also one free piece of fruit. Occasionally I’d go there and have coffee or soda on my tray and didn’t get charged. Employees might just grab fruit and/or a beverage and just walk away. There was also a rule about no open containers that might spill, So that meant a lid was required, and they even had disposable lids for their coffee mugs. But they also had vending machines on every floor. They also had coffee vending machines in the cafeteria. I wasn't sure what to do about coffee in the afternoon since the cashiers were gone after lunch but there was still self serve coffee. I think I had a coffee vending machine dispense into a cup that wasn’t there once.

 

[y_p_w]

Might as well keep the list going.....

I wonder if those that dont bring lunch or soda are unhappy about the free refrigeration and cleaning of them by the facilities staff?

I wonder how those that don't reheat anything at lunch feel about the provided microwaves and energy that go into reheating others lunches on top of having to inhale the odors of their sustenance?

 

[Ws6]

Really, I'm mad at unemployed people. We should tax them. We pay wayyyy more than they do, because they don't. Riding for free.

 

[Rmay635703]

I finally went to office in my new hybrid job role(1 full continuous in office week/month). They have 12 chargers free as employee perk in the garage. Very large workplace. Not sure if level I or Level II however I see lots of PHEV and EV (Tesla/Rivian/BMW)plugged in.

How many have charging at work and even better free perk?

I had free L1 and block heater access from 2010-2020, (bring your own EVSE)
sadly the company has sort of forgotten about it and now has a paid L3/DC fast charge option at only the headquarters
through an app and you gotta move after a few hours, really mediocre solution compared to just parking in the back 40 and using 110vac during your shift.

Really, I'm mad at unemployed people. We should tax them. We pay wayyyy more than they do, because they don't. Riding for free.

Blood from a dried up turnip eh?

My state doesn’t provide any unemployment or welfare/food stamps for very long, after you use up your time training and applying for jobs
you get nothing (we technically don’t have welfare as it’s based on participation and limited in duration)

Only way around this is if you are crippled tarded blind but the stipend for ssi can be extremely low depending on your work history.

I guess I don't understand the resistance to this being a taxable benefit. A few key points I guess I would make.

1. The employee is receiving a benefit that is entirely for their benefit, no EV = no benefit
2. The company is paying for this, lowering profits and affecting other employees wage increases or profit sharing opportunities
3. People driving ICE vehicles pay tax on gasoline. My company does not pay my gas tax and why should they
4. EV's are exempt by nature from gas tax so no benefit to the funding of infrastructure in this country
5. EV's qualify for a tax rebate at a significant amount
6. Why are the chargers not like parking meters? It should bill the user based on consumption over time. My electric bill is done this way...
7. EV's are being pushed as environmentally friendly but we refuse to address the hazardous waste of the battery alone

EV's are being pushed pretty hard in the current world we live in. IMO, EV's are a rather large social experiment that we all share the burden of. The owner gets the benefit and the rest of us pay the price.

Just my $0.02

Most of what you wrote is inaccurate or the opposite of how things are now, 10 years ago maybe you had a point, not anymore.

1/2/3. Many companies DO provide gas or even a company vehicle to employees, over 95% of the companies that do this
DO PAY FOR GAS but will not reimburse charging expenses, this is a long standing problem with what can be written off or not by the company.
The company especially if it is a factory with its own substation DOES NOT PAY anywhere near the book rates for electricity, the industrial rate is almost always a little above the production cost which is usually below wholesale compared to the hourly rate most employees get charging costs for a fleet of EVs actually costs the company less than toilet paper and other costs of maintaining a bathroom.

4/5. Hasn’t been true in 6 years, 90% of EVs in the US are located in states that charge road taxes on the registration at a rate similar to a 15000lb box truck. The small number of states that don’t have a EV penalty have statistically ZERO EVs and everyone pays 5-20% municipal substation tax nationwide and always has. There are also states that tax vehicle insurance companies and get a large slice of pie from the egregious insurance rates, they also tax the crap up front onnEVs due to inflated sales/registration/personal property tax.

6. Many of them are or even worse.

7. What are saying is hazardous? Cobalt? Actually all of the recycling and reclamation infrastructure is in place but less than 1% of batteries have gotten to that point, junk batteries are extremely valuable and thousands of companies fight over wrecks to sell them into the hobbiest, solar and aftermarket.

Yes the EV owner gets the benefit of double, tripling or quadrupling their registration/road tax burden and doubling their insurance rate. They also get the benefit of expensive and usually broken charging infrastructure that costs more than gas and in many areas pays road taxes per kwhr at a rate higher than gas.
In many areas because of terrible decision making they also get to pay exponentially higher electric rates.

10 years ago my utility bill was around $15 a month in the summer, now my bill is $50 if I don’t use any energy, lots of bad decisions and lack of oversight to go around.

The maps below are already out of date but everything orange/red is paying EV taxes above the rate of gas tax

 

[Torrid]

I had free L1 and block heater access from 2010-2020, (bring your own EVSE)
sadly the company has sort of forgotten about it and now has a paid L3/DC fast charge option at only the headquarters
through an app and you gotta move after a few hours, really mediocre solution compared to just parking in the back 40 and using 110vac during your shift.


Blood from a dried up turnip eh?

My state doesn’t provide any unemployment or welfare/food stamps for very long, after you use up your time training and applying for jobs
you get nothing (we technically don’t have welfare as it’s based on participation and limited in duration)

Only way around this is if you are crippled tarded blind but the stipend for ssi can be extremely low depending on your work history.



Most of what you wrote is inaccurate or the opposite of how things are now, 10 years ago maybe you had a point, not anymore.

1/2/3. Many companies DO provide gas or even a company vehicle to employees, over 95% of the companies that do this
DO PAY FOR GAS but will not reimburse charging expenses, this is a long standing problem with what can be written off or not by the company.
The company especially if it is a factory with its own substation DOES NOT PAY anywhere near the book rates for electricity, the industrial rate is almost always a little above the production cost which is usually below wholesale compared to the hourly rate most employees get charging costs for a fleet of EVs actually costs the company less than toilet paper and other costs of maintaining a bathroom.

4/5. Hasn’t been true in 6 years, 90% of EVs in the US are located in states that charge road taxes on the registration at a rate similar to a 15000lb box truck. The small number of states that don’t have a EV penalty have statistically ZERO EVs and everyone pays 5-20% municipal substation tax nationwide and always has. There are also states that tax vehicle insurance companies and get a large slice of pie from the egregious insurance rates, they also tax the crap up front onnEVs due to inflated sales/registration/personal property tax.

6. Many of them are or even worse.

7. What are saying is hazardous? Cobalt? Actually all of the recycling and reclamation infrastructure is in place but less than 1% of batteries have gotten to that point, junk batteries are extremely valuable and thousands of companies fight over wrecks to sell them into the hobbiest, solar and aftermarket.

Yes the EV owner gets the benefit of double, tripling or quadrupling their registration/road tax burden and doubling their insurance rate. They also get the benefit of expensive and usually broken charging infrastructure that costs more than gas and in many areas pays road taxes per kwhr at a rate higher than gas.
In many areas because of terrible decision making they also get to pay exponentially higher electric rates.

10 years ago my utility bill was around $15 a month in the summer, now my bill is $50 if I don’t use any energy, lots of bad decisions and lack of oversight to go around.

The maps below are already out of date but everything orange/red is paying EV taxes above the rate of gas taxView attachment 200707

View attachment 200708

Yeah, this last increase in WI doubled from the previous year.

 

[Rmay635703]

Yeah, this last increase in WI doubled from the previous year.

What sucks about Wisconsin is the inconsistency, i get slammed by insurance and local taxes like wheel tax.
I owned 2 identical cars (neither plugged in) one was paying both the plug in fee and local wheel taxes right away, the other went several years paying nothing until they figured out it was a hybrid (that hasn’t had a working hybrid system or battery in a decade)

My truck until recently wasn’t getting charged wheel taxes (which were supposed to be a 1 year temporary emergency tax 10 years ago).

I didn’t mind only paying $75/85 month n my truck all those years but why should my 1900lb antique car be paying over double?
Why should the liability insurance be higher?

The latest thing is that they no longer charge any real different amount of tax on a 1/4 ton truck VRS a deuce and a half, they are wining about not having enough $$$ why then proceed to discount and make 1/4 ton , 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton 1 ton and deuce and a half plates all virtually the same?

Years ago 1 ton (and more) was a lot more expensive than the plates for little 1/4 and 1/2 ton trucks. Now they are discounted to be as little as $5 more, all while the state says it doesn’t get enough road funding.

And if you have a derelict hobby farm growing pine trees you can completely avoid all the local wheel taxes and pay a much lower biannual rate.

 

[Astro14]

I finally went to office in my new hybrid job role(1 full continuous in office week/month). They have 12 chargers free as employee perk in the garage. Very large workplace. Not sure if level I or Level II however I see lots of PHEV and EV (Tesla/Rivian/BMW)plugged in.

How many have charging at work and even better free perk?

Our Training Center in Denver has over a dozen chargers.

There are strict policies on how long you can leave your car plugged in, as there are always more EV than there are chargers.

Between the HOV access from CDOT, and the free “juice” at work, I can see why guys run EVs Vs. ICE.

 

[Rmay635703]

Our Training Center in Denver has over a dozen chargers.

There are strict policies on how long you can leave your car plugged in, as there are always more EV than there are chargers.

Between the HOV access from CDOT, and the free “juice” at work, I can see why guys run EVs Vs. ICE.

That’s why I enjoyed having access to the back 40 fence, there were hundreds of ancient 20 amp 110vac outlets there for block chargers that the company marked for EV charging.

You were guaranteed that no matter how many people got a plug in everybody could charge without hassles of moving mid shift.

Despite the large number of outlets by the parking lot, only a max of about 5 people would be plugged in.

Nice while it lasted.

 

[LDM]

I wonder how long these free work chargers will last when the states and the electric companies start charging more for EV charging to make up for taxes and fees? IL and Ameren Cilco are already working on both of these things, I can't see companies being willing to give free charging when they are paying $1-2 per kWh to charge an electric car.

None at the place I work anyway, but I'd really like an E85 pump since that is what I typically put in my truck. Its alternative fueling after all.

 

[andrew_j]

I wonder how long these free work chargers will last when the states and the electric companies start charging more for EV charging to make up for taxes and fees? IL and Ameren Cilco are already working on both of these things, I can't see companies being willing to give free charging when they are paying $1-2 per kWh to charge an electric car.

None at the place I work anyway, but I'd really like an E85 pump since that is what I typically put in my truck. Its alternative fueling after all.

They already charge fees in some states like mine $100/year to make up for fuel state tax. $100 EV fee equates to 13k miles if you got 30MPG. I think the $50 for PHEV is steep as they very widely on range from 22 miles - 44 miles and mostly less.

 

[John105]

We have that. It’s a 7 story parking garage.

They had to put signs over the electric vehicle parking only signs, saying anyone is free to park here. What was happening was 66% of the spaces were empty 100% of the time. Waste of parking spaces.

It’s a mental thing. I’m ok parking my V8 in a spot with a sign “fuel efficient low emissions vehicles only,” because my car is ULEV and 14 mpg is not bad. But until given permission by the court jester of the EV Kingdom, I wouldn’t dare park in a unused charging spot.

Wonder if the 1/3 utilization ratio is typical. And it’s free charging to boot.

 

[LDM]

They already charge fees in some states like mine $100/year to make up for fuel state tax. $100 EV fee equates to 13k miles if you got 30MPG. I think the $50 for PHEV is steep as they very widely on range from 22 miles - 44 miles and mostly less.

Yep, IL charges more for the tag on EVs but they also want to charge taxes on the electricity used. There is a really good reason why IL mandated the installation of all those smart meters everywhere. There is no such thing as a tax Chicago didn't like.

 

[y_p_w]

Yep, IL charges more for the tag on EVs but they also want to charge taxes on the electricity used. There is a really good reason why IL mandated the installation of all those smart meters everywhere. There is no such thing as a tax Chicago didn't like.

I'm not sure how that would be done. My parents looked into it and got a time of use rate tied into their single meter. They could have gotten an EV only meter where the rest of their house was on a different rate plan than the EV charging, although I'm not sure what can be done to separate household use.

They charge at home through a Tesla Mobile Connector with a 15-50 plug at 240V. They had to have someone install a 2x50A breaker in the last spot on their breaker panel.

If they got the separate meter, I think they would have needed to install another breaker box.

 

[Rmay635703]

I wonder how long these free work chargers will last when the states and the electric companies start charging more for EV charging to make up for taxes, I can't see companies being willing to give free charging when they are paying $1-2 per kWh to charge an electric car.

If it’s l1 you use a max of 9.6kwhrs a day

Even at a buck a kwhr that is $9.60, most companies figure $15/day of losses per employee to provide bathrooms .

In grand scheme of employees retention costs $9.60 a day is nothing

 

[LDM]

I'm not sure how that would be done. My parents looked into it and got a time of use rate tied into their single meter. They could have gotten an EV only meter where the rest of their house was on a different rate plan than the EV charging, although I'm not sure what can be done to separate household use.

They charge at home through a Tesla Mobile Connector with a 15-50 plug at 240V. They had to have someone install a 2x50A breaker in the last spot on their breaker panel.

If they got the separate meter, I think they would have needed to install another breaker box.

They will just add it to the electric bill. The smart meters can detect what devices are plugged in and charge accordingly. Not to mention the car will be registered with the IL DMV. Like I said, there isn't a tax Chicago hasn't liked.