Free charging at work?

[y_p_w]

I acknowledge a company's right to offer free charging to select employees; a private entity can do as it sees fit.
I also retain my right to complain about it, because I didn't get free gasoline, nor get to park "up front" where the chargers are.

Having seen where these things are located, it can be really random. I was at this brewpub in Sonoma County where their J1772 charging setups were close to the entrance, but their Tesla Destination Charging was a good walk away from the entrance. The former might have been paid though, although I think they might have been complimentary.

I suppose they can make those available to anyone including employees and customers.

I guess it's a free country and we're all free to complain about whatever we want. I guess I could complain that the business is providing free dog treats when I don't have a dog any more. Or providing free Wi-Fi if I don't connect to it. Years ago I remember hearing protests from taxpayers that they were older and didn't have children in public schools, and wanted their taxes reduced as a result.

 

[y_p_w]

I am not sure if they are taxed on the free charging, but I know most places have a 3 hour limit on free or low cost charging then increase to a much higher rate to encourage people moving their cars for others.

Only possible with a more expensive system like ChargePoint that can be programmed and with communications. A lot of these systems aren't "networked" to a central billing service. The equipment is a lot cheaper.

This costs $549:

https://www.chargepoint.com/drivers/home/chargepoint-home-flex

This costs maybe $6000+:

https://www.chargepoint.com/businesses/ac-stations/ct4000

Level 3 gets really expensive - at least $30,000 each.

I don't know exactly how it works with some of the basic Level 2 equipment that might have the ability to talk to a home base for setup. Tesla is claiming that they might be able to have some sort of controls with commercial versions of its Wall Connector where a business might be able to charge for it. But it wouldn't be like ChargePoint with a user interface and credit card and ChargePoint card readers at the pedestal. Those work various ways including directly charging to a credit card or presenting a ChargePoint card with an account set up.

 

[y_p_w]

Thinking about the tax implications a little bit more. There are certain things where the tax code has favorable treatment for things that are considered in the interests of the "public good". Like health insurance isn't taxable. Or where health savings accounts or educational saving accounts can be filled with pre-tax income.

I could easily see where employer provided EV charging is a considered a public good. Not much different than Commuter Checks or where employee shuttles are considered untaxable fringe benefits. Parking is allowed to as a nontaxable fringe benefit. My downtown parking was paid for before, but otherwise it was $12 a day. I understand that fuel per se can't be a nontaxable benefit, but vanpooling or employee shuttles can. I suppose electricity could be seen as something that can be OK if it tends to reduce the use of gasoline or diesel fuel.

I mean - where does it end? When I charge my personal phone in the office does that "benefit" get taxed?

 

[demarpaint]

I mean - where does it end? When I charge my personal phone in the office does that "benefit" get taxed?

How many employees phones can the juice it takes to charge just one of the most popular TSLA cars from 20-80%? How many employees have cell phones vs. EV's? How about free phone charging for the employees, and they charge their EVs at home, on their own dime? That seems fair and would benefit more employees, and not require the expense of installing places to charge cars. Win win imo, and it wouldn't discriminate against ICE owners.

 

[y_p_w]

How many employees phones can the juice it takes to charge just one of the most popular TSLA cars from 20-80%? How many employees have cell phones vs. EV's? How about free phone charging for the employees, and they charge their EVs at home, on their own dime? That seems fair and would benefit more employees, and not require the expense of installing places to charge cars. Win win imo, and it wouldn't discriminate against ICE owners.

OK - what else discriminates against ICE owners? I know some people who take company shuttle buses to work, thus saving themselves the cost of fuel/electricity/wear. The people who choose to drive to work anyways don't get a credit. Or those who get commuter benefits to use to purchase transit fares. Is that also discriminating against vehicle drivers? If you really want to go there, is providing parking discriminating against people who don't have a car and find other means to get to work?

Companies have their own reasons for doing what they do, regardless of what others thing is fair or not. Apple specifically provides EV charging as part of their environmental goals, along with public transit and employee shuttles. I get that some find some way to fault it, but I say more power to the employees who use them.

https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/Apple_Environmental_Progress_Report_2023.pdf​

For example, we’re helping our employees transition away from single-occupancy vehicles through mass transit, coach services, and campus bicycles. To incentivize the use of electric vehicles, we offer more than 1670 EV charging stations and 3200 ports across our U.S.-based campuses.​

 

[JeffKeryk]

How many employees phones can the juice it takes to charge just one of the most popular TSLA cars from 20-80%? How many employees have cell phones vs. EV's? How about free phone charging for the employees, and they charge their EVs at home, on their own dime? That seems fair and would benefit more employees, and not require the expense of installing places to charge cars. Win win imo, and it wouldn't discriminate against ICE owners.

I am not sure discrimination is the word. Companies offer various perks to attract and keep valued employees. There are a lot of EVs around here. HR departments send out surveys to see what employees might like.

 

[Ws6]

I finally went to office in my new hybrid job role(1 full continuous in office week/month). They have 12 chargers free as employee perk in the garage. Very large workplace. Not sure if level I or Level II however I see lots of PHEV and EV (Tesla/Rivian/BMW)plugged in.

How many have charging at work and even better free perk?

My hospital has free parking garage, no charging yet.

 

[Ws6]

Many hospitals have free charging in the doctor’s parking to keep the doctors happy.

Same for free breakfast, lunch and dinner in doctor’s dining room.

We have the food, but we don't have the free charging, and oddly, the doc parking is not covered, while regular parking is a multilevel garage. The food is good, though.

 

[demarpaint]

I am not sure discrimination is the word. Companies offer various perks to attract and keep valued employees. There are a lot of EVs around here. HR departments send out surveys to see what employees might like.

You can call it whatever you like, I was making a point that's all. Lets see what happens if EVs really take off, and people start complaining because there aren't enough chargers at work. My bet the perk ends.I have a good friend who manages a doctors office, drug reps would buy the staff lunch a couple of days a week. A few people started complaining because of the repetitive menu, and just like that upper management told the drug reps they're not allowed to buy lunch for the staff anymore. Time will tell.

 

[demarpaint]

OK - what else discriminates against ICE owners? I know some people who take company shuttle buses to work, thus saving themselves the cost of fuel/electricity/wear. The people who choose to drive to work anyways don't get a credit. Or those who get commuter benefits to use to purchase transit fares. Is that also discriminating against vehicle drivers? If you really want to go there, is providing parking discriminating against people who don't have a car and find other means to get to work?

Companies have their own reasons for doing what they do, regardless of what others thing is fair or not. Apple specifically provides EV charging as part of their environmental goals, along with public transit and employee shuttles. I get that some find some way to fault it, but I say more power to the employees who use them.

https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/Apple_Environmental_Progress_Report_2023.pdf​

For example, we’re helping our employees transition away from single-occupancy vehicles through mass transit, coach services, and campus bicycles. To incentivize the use of electric vehicles, we offer more than 1670 EV charging stations and 3200 ports across our U.S.-based campuses.​

If AAPL really wants to go green and save the planet maybe they should make more of their products in the USA, not China.

 

[Trav]

Thinking about the tax implications a little bit more. There are certain things where the tax code has favorable treatment for things that are considered in the interests of the "public good". Like health insurance isn't taxable. Or where health savings accounts or educational saving accounts can be filled with pre-tax income.

I could easily see where employer provided EV charging is a considered a public good. Not much different than Commuter Checks or where employee shuttles are considered untaxable fringe benefits. Parking is allowed to as a nontaxable fringe benefit. My downtown parking was paid for before, but otherwise it was $12 a day. I understand that fuel per se can't be a nontaxable benefit, but vanpooling or employee shuttles can. I suppose electricity could be seen as something that can be OK if it tends to reduce the use of gasoline or diesel fuel.

I mean - where does it end? When I charge my personal phone in the office does that "benefit" get taxed?

For the public good? Thank you Comrade.

 

[4WD]

We don’t have chargers - but better parking places for EV’s …
Coffee machines are nice - but the food court is a better perk …
The Company owns multiple eateries - and vendors bid food and labor to run them - great food for less …

 

[DwightFrye]

Some of the responses here sound like they are written by lawyers who work for the IRS and want to justify some kind of tax code that will further nickel and dime the citizens to death in the form of taxes.

How about the taxman stays the heck out of it if a company wants to absorb the cost of the electricity used to charge the vehicles for some employees ? The slippery slope we are all on is getting steeper by the day.

 

[y_p_w]

Some of the responses here sound like they are written by lawyers who work for the IRS and want to justify some kind of tax code that will further nickel and dime the citizens to death in the form of taxes.

How about the taxman stays the heck out of it if a company wants to absorb the cost of the electricity used to charge the vehicles for some employees ? The slippery slope we are all on is getting steeper by the day.

I really doubt there’s anyone who really wishes that employees get taxed for perks. Some people will just claim it’s all unfair for one reason or another to provide a perk for EV drivers.

I don’t think this argument is genuine other than making excuses for those who don’t like EVs. It gets really silly after a while because employers provide all sorts of transportation options. Some people even walk a couple of blocks to work. Since when has providing a perk (parking, shuttles, bike parking, etc) that not everyone uses been discriminating against those who don’t use it? I’ve even heard at some companies they’ll pay for an Uber ride if someone misses the company shuttle ride home.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

My previous employer's parking garage had 15-20 EV chargers. I never looked at them, but from coworkers who used the chargers, they were apparently significantly more expensive than charging at home.

 

[Owen Lucas]

Many hospitals have free charging in the doctor’s parking to keep the doctors happy.

Same for free breakfast, lunch and dinner in doctor’s dining room.

Another perk I've heard of is Doctors can park in the covered deck and let the other employees scrape snow off their cars.

Charging at work would help steer me towards a PHEV if I was in the market for a new vehicle. Even if it meant a 120V outlet to keep the battery topped up, that would be nice.

 

[y_p_w]

My previous employer's parking garage had 15-20 EV chargers. I never looked at them, but from coworkers who used the chargers, they were apparently significantly more expensive than charging at home.

If it's a commercial charging station, the prices are almost always higher than home electricity - especially if someone gets a time of use rate and charges during off-peak. That kind of equipment is expensive and requires access to networks in order to communicate with billing. There are some exceptions. I've seen some Tesla rates that are 21 cents/kWh, but that might be from midnight to 8AM. That's cheaper than time of use rates around here.

The cost of non-networked equipment is about what someone would pay for similar home equipment and may even be the same as home equipment. It just needs to be able to withstand weather.

I think the discussion is really about just providing the equivalent of electrical outlets.

 

[Trav]

All they have to do is issue each employee a chip card. When they charge their car the have to insert the card and the amount of electricity is recorded and the cost. All that needs to be done is add that to the worker wage and earning statement so the tax can be paid.
If it was $20 a day x 250 working days that is 5K they would have to pay tax on. It would be no different if the employer paid the employee for 4 or 5 gallons of gas every day to go to their job, that is insane.

 

[cb_13]

Hoping for more taxes? The Sons of Liberty would be disappointed in some of you guys.

 

[y_p_w]

All they have to do is issue each employee a chip card. When they charge their car the have to insert the card and the amount of electricity is recorded and the cost. All that needs to be done is add that to the worker wage and earning statement so the tax can be paid.
If it was $20 a day x 250 working days that is 5K they would have to pay tax on. It would be no different if the employer paid the employee for 4 or 5 gallons of gas every day to go to their job, that is insane.

One employer of mine provided monthly parking in a pay parking garage where it would have otherwise been $20 a day. So I suppose the fair market value of employee parking should be taxable income too. That’s the logical extension of your proposal.

And I suppose employers would love a requirement to obtain specialty equipment to account for every single perk. Maybe snacks and coffee dispensed from vending machines with key cards to account for taxable benefits.

Or maybe just treat it like a de minimis benefit like pretty much every company does these days.

There has been discussions about formally rolling a certain amount as a “qualified transportation fringe benefit”. However, this would be something like providing a company-paid ChargePoint card. It’s my understanding that if there’s something like free customer EV charging, employees are free to access the same under tax rules.

To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to include electric charging of certain vehicles as a qualified transportation fringe benefit excluded from gross income.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/BILLS-114s3450is/pdf/BILLS-114s3450is.pdf