Frantz - which roll ?

[Shannow]

Now I've got a low priced beater/toy, I'm Auto-Rxing it at present with my high priced super high bypass pressure filter.

Saw the gravity filter thread, and thought it might be nice to bypass filter the BMW (maybe later on re-use the synthetic, SX-Uped AutoRxed oil from my main car, but that's way way later).

So I bought a Frantz of ebay.

It's got the internal screen, the screw clamp clamp (dunno where the restrictor is, as haven't looked. Wherever it is, I plan to drill it out, and install the restrictor at the oil pressure take-off to minimise hose pressure.

Now I need advice on filter size.

After I bid, I started searching, and there was the 4-1/4 versus 4-1/2 inch threads.

Down here, we have 4" toilet paper.

Right core size.

Checked by placing a roll into the filter body (just in) seating the spring ring, assembling the filter, disassembling, then pressing the roll an extra 1/4" into the can.

Anyone made a 1/4" spacer for a Frantz ?

 

[Gary Allan]

Are you saying that the diameter is correct (our wipes are almost square 4.5x4.5)??? If it's length, I wouldn't worry at all. Just route the incoming through the center tube and have that on the bottom. The oil should press the roll "down" and there should be no physics to support the oil flow pushing the center tube "up". The square inches of the end of the roll should take command of any tug-o-war with the oil pressure trying to escape down around the lower rim. If you've got 1.5" copper (for easy working with tubing cutters and whatnot) it fits perfectly in the 1 5/8" ID of our rolls. This will elevate copper in any UOA you do for a bit.

 

[Shannow]

ours are 10x11cm.

I was hoping the 11 was width, but the width is 10.

 

[Gary Allan]

Grab another roll .and wind it around the full one until you get to 11cm. Use tape to hold it tight for insertion. One guy managed a nylon stocking deal to slide the bulging roll in. I'm not sure how he tied it off. Maybe stuffed it in the center tube

 

[Shannow]

Sorry Gary, not quite it.

Individual squares are 10cmx11. the height of the roll is 10cm.

Roll needs to be unwound a little to gt it in.

 

[Gary Allan]

I guess you were(originally) viewing the roll as it rest next to the throne. Sideways.

So ..no problem ..unwind it some.

If you can find just some plain gasket material (I'm sure the maintenance strokes have .25 stuff at the plant) ..just cut the appropriate sized circle to washer the roll tight in the housing.

 

[Shannow]

Interestingly, Woolworths "home brand" 1000 sheet fits the tube perfectly, while being the highest density roll in the store...$1.80 for 2 rolls.

Will have to make up a .25" ring as suggested.

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, they have been serving Oz for over 80 years. They ought to know what you need.

See?

 

[Boyce]

I have been running a Frantz for the last 260,000 miles in a 1968 Nova I bought new. Also did 100,000 on each of two diesel Oldsmobiles. I rebuild my own engines.

First, don't buy into changing the roll once a month and never change the oil. I did, I shouldn't have, and neither should you. Of course, if you want your rings to be caked in carbon like mine were, that is one way to do it.

Use two ply tissues. Yes, it makes a difference. If you use two ply and change the oil in a diesel, you can wipe the oil stains off your hands with a paper towel. If you use a single ply, sharp carbon grit is left behind and had hard to wash off.

The restricter is the hole in the bottom that feeds into the tube that delivers the oil to the top of the roll.

I generally wrap some of the roll around the center to seal between the roll cardboard and the tube. If the OD is too small, I wind some more from another roll to fill in.

Is it worth doing? Well, I have a couple sitting around and have not bothered installing them on my newer cars with limited space and high under hood temperatures to eat on oil hoses. Does it do any good? I will let you know when I am 100 years old in 37 years. Right now, I think it is hard to beat whatever oil is on sale and changing it every 3 months. Pretty much ignore the miles.

So, you rebuild the engine and put in good chrom-moly rings and change the oil a lot. You will be praying for the engine to die so you can throw away the car. If you change your automatic transmission fluid every year, you will lose still another reason to throw the car away.

My diesels never died. They got to be too much work. My engine hoist was wearing out.

 

[96 Cherokee]

Quote:

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First, don't buy into changing the roll once a month and never change the oil. I did, I shouldn't have, and neither should you. Of course, if you want your rings to be caked in carbon like mine were, that is one way to do it.

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This contradicts what Ralph Wood has stated. Please explain in more detail. I am doing the "perpetual OCI" in my 96 Jeep rural mail route delivery vehicle and my first UOA with the Motor Guard at 14,000 miles was very good. This is assuming the high copper was from the copper parts on the inside of the Motor Guard filter housing. Everything else was much improved over previous used oil analysis on this engine, including used oil analysis with the Amsoil dual bypass filter system installed.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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First, don't buy into changing the roll once a month and never change the oil. I did, I shouldn't have, and neither should you. Of course, if you want your rings to be caked in carbon like mine were, that is one way to do it.

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It takes about 24m/24k to get a mature sump with a 5 quart total system. Make that 30m/30k for a 6 quart total system.

I'd say that your results were "unusual". That is, unless this was a diesel, you would have seen any oil degradation when you checked it.


Did it ever occur to you that oil coking in the rings is a normal condition for some engines?

 

[Boyce]

Quote:

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Quote:

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First, don't buy into changing the roll once a month and never change the oil. I did, I shouldn't have, and neither should you. Of course, if you want your rings to be caked in carbon like mine were, that is one way to do it.

---

Well, I did it for about 10 years. Two dead cold starts and about 4 mile trips most days. Very bad application for most engines, particularly in the old days. Think you application heats the engine up each time you start it. Keep it up. I hope it works.
Boyce

It takes about 24m/24k to get a mature sump with a 5 quart total system. Make that 30m/30k for a 6 quart total system.

I'd say that your results were "unusual". That is, unless this was a diesel, you would have seen any oil degradation when you checked it.


Did it ever occur to you that oil coking in the rings is a normal condition for some engines?

---

 

[Gary Allan]

That's rough service for any engine.

 

[Shannow]

Gonna use 1/4 nitrile "o-ring" to take the space.

another dumb question.

when I assemble the Frantz, it's got the metal circlip against the toilet roll.

That leaves a sizable gap between the element (and centre cardboard tube) and the screen.

Does it rely on the oil soaked media to deform, and make the seal ?

 

[Gary Allan]

Hmmm...I'm hearing diameter with the "element and center tube"
I'm hearing length with "the screen".

You're saying that although the Woolworths roll fits the canister with ample girth, the center tube is slightly too big in ID for a snug internal seal??

Is it a 1 5/8 (41+mm) center tube? If I'm correct, I found a couple of items that happen to fit in there. Naturally, YMMV since downunders will have some variant of a metric persuasion.

I found that drain parts, the slightly flared slip joint (collared in service) augments the tube fairly well at the end of the tube. It provides a firm "lower lip", so to speak. Our 1.5" ID copper fits perfectly in the 1.625/41mm tube.

 

[Shannow]

Gary,
it fits the tube OK (around 1mm excess clearance tops).

Looking at the base

There's the screen, and around the centre tube there's a raised ring (which I assume is to bite into the media around the centre tube to effect a better seal).

But the element is held up in the cartridge by the metal ring.

So how does the roll get down to effect a seal, when the metal ring is stopping it ?

does the oily paper deform towards the baseplate, effecting a seal, thus forcing the oil through the paper ?

 

[Gary Allan]

If the seal on the other end is intact, it doesn't have to. You're sending oil up the center tube. The return is through the big media cross-section. As long as your center tube on the closed end is secure, no worries. Just like a two pass exchanger. As long as you're sealed on the baffled end and no cross flow occurs ....

I think you have the other end covered with the washer.

 

[Gary Allan]

Wow, Shannow

300+ views on this thread alone. Did you bring the entire emerging Frantz/MG Oz contingent with you? Is there a run on tp at Woolworths