Francis Scott Key Bridge (Baltimore) hit by Cargo Ship and Collapsed

[DuckRyder]

I said we should seize assets of those who are supposed to pay before they hide their assets.

Do you understand the reinsurance market?

Reinsurance Explained: What It Is, How It Works, Types

Reinsurance is "insurance for insurance companies," to ensure that no insurance company has too much exposure to a large event or disaster.

www.investopedia.com

Causation, Liability, Negligence and so forth?

Bonus points if you'd like to explain what the consequences of setting the precedence of seizing say Lloyds of London's or Chubb's assets like this.

If I cause a accident in my car I or my insurance must pay.

True, but you can bet that whether or not you actually caused the accident will be cleared up before paying, this can be anywhere from quite clear to substantially muddy.

We regularly seize accounts of cartels, oligarchs and money laundererers. Why not this?

Well maybe that ones a ones a criminal enterprise and ones just enterprise? If we find out this guy woke up and said "hey i think i'll run the ship into the bridge" I'll be right there with you and the pitchforks.

Of course any one is unlikely to get much out of the Captain....

 

[facility1]

right now i suspect some contractor (s) are getting some large cranes and probably excavator type hydraulic shears and barges heading that way to clear the channel, just wonder how long the investigative people just want to gawk at this until the go ahead is ok to start clean up.

 

[bullwinkle]

This is why you never set yourself up with a commute over a major bridge or through a tunnel.

I generally have to cross the I-71/-75 Brent Spence once or twice a day into KY-it’s generally white knuckle even without thinking about a barge running into a pier.

 

[bullwinkle]

I question that amount.... There is a plan to rebuild a bridge across the Ohio River from Cincinnati to N KY and the number is $1 billion, as I recall. It's a shorter and simpler bridge too, if I'm not mistaken.

Actually the plan is to build a second bridge, along side the existing Brent Spence, & split the local & out of state traffic. The existing bridge, despite its age, is still in good enough shape-it’s just not big enough. Only ~1/4 mile across, recent estimates are now around $2B due to inflation.

 

[DuckRyder]

Interesting word choices in the media briefing "satisfactory" condition and so forth.

Apparently no redundancy in the structure and it was termed "fracture critical" meaning that the failure of any span would result in the entire bridge failing.

Which also brings up the question of cost to rebuild the same structure vs a structure up to current engineering and traffic standards, they say an average of 30,000 is vehicles a day cross it which seems very high to me.

Anyway.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Do you understand the reinsurance market?

Reinsurance Explained: What It Is, How It Works, Types

Reinsurance is "insurance for insurance companies," to ensure that no insurance company has too much exposure to a large event or disaster.

www.investopedia.com

Causation, Liability, Negligence and so forth?

Bonus points if you'd like to explain what the consequences of setting the precedence of seizing say Lloyds of London's or Chubb's assets like this.



True, but you can bet that whether or not you actually caused the accident will be cleared up before paying, this can be anywhere from quite clear to substantially muddy.




Well maybe that ones a ones a criminal enterprise and ones just enterprise? If we find out this guy woke up and said "hey i think i'll run the ship into the bridge" I'll be right there with you and the pitchforks.

Of course any one is unlikely to get much out of the Captain....

Yes I understand quite well how re insurance works. But it's not Loyds. It's some pool called Britania P&I clubs.

If it's so well insured why is uncle Sam in such a rush to step up?

And there is no rich uncle Sam. Just we the people.

 

[mk378]

It's standard disaster response for the government to spend tax money immediately to get the situation back to normal by repairing public infrastructure such as roads and ports as soon as possible. Sometimes that money can be recovered, sometimes it cannot. Most taxpayers agree that ports and bridges are legitimate things to spend tax money on.

The laws relating to shipwrecks are complicated and it is likely to be quite a while before any company pays. And no you can't just seize the insurance company's money because you think your claim is more important than someone else's.

 

[mk378]

Apparently no redundancy in the structure and it was termed "fracture critical" meaning that the failure of any span would result in the entire bridge failing.

In bridge policy, this is called "functionally obsolete" and it should be planned and budgeted for replacement whether or not it falls down. There was another major bridge where a truck veered off the road and hit one side beam, which ended up in a total collapse and many deaths.

an average of 30,000 is vehicles a day cross it which seems very high to me.

Many four and 6 lane suburban surface roads have this volume.

 

[Exhaustgases]

I wouldn't let that ship leave until money has been paid.

That city really needs to lease a bunch of ferry boats, until the bridge is usable again.

Yeah all ship insurance laws to protect the big $ that can afford it the most.

 

[walterjay]

Ferry boats won't solve this problem with container shipping. Right now the US Coast guard can't even get their equipment in and out of their facility there.

 

[Thermo1223]

Interesting word choices in the media briefing "satisfactory" condition and so forth.

Apparently no redundancy in the structure and it was termed "fracture critical" meaning that the failure of any span would result in the entire bridge failing.

Which also brings up the question of cost to rebuild the same structure vs a structure up to current engineering and traffic standards, they say an average of 30,000 is vehicles a day cross it which seems very high to me.

Anyway.

I mean let's be a little honest about this. The bridge stood 50 years built with the best practices and technology available at the time. It had to be high enough for ships to pass and was built in a harbor protected from the sea. There was little to no expectation of a ship crashing into it.

Freak accidents can and do occur. It was not a fault of intended design.

 

[y_p_w]

I mean let's be a little honest about this. The bridge stood 50 years built with the best practices and technology available at the time. It had to be high enough for ships to pass and was built in a harbor protected from the sea. There was little to no expectation of a ship crashing into it.

Freak accidents can and do occur. It was not a fault of intended design.

Every bridge in San Francisco Bay and San Pablo Bay has fenders to protect their supports. This includes bridges that are over 85 years old. A container ship went head on into a support of the Oakland-San Francisco Bay Bridge in 2007. It didn't cause any damage to the bridge, but the ship did leak fuel into the bay.

 

[DuckRyder]

I mean let's be a little honest about this. The bridge stood 50 years built with the best practices and technology available at the time. It had to be high enough for ships to pass and was built in a harbor protected from the sea. There was little to no expectation of a ship crashing into it.

Freak accidents can and do occur. It was not a fault of intended design.

I did not say otherwise.

 

[alarmguy]

@BigCahuna can possibly clarify

1. The ship was leaving our port

2. The ship was being (assisted) by 2 of our onboard harbor pilots which are tasked with bringing ships in and out of the harbor/channel.

I don’t think there is any conspiracy here but if there was it will be found out. This isn’t like a plane crash the entire crew is alive and well to testify including OUR two harbor pilots who were onboard and assists in control of the helm guiding it out of the harbor as I understand it.

Loading…

www.cnn.com

Accident I am sure unless proven otherwise but safe to say the crew in the helm didn’t intentionally ram the into the bridge.

“The ship reportedly had aboard two harbor pilots — personnel with specialized knowledge of the port who assist with navigation — to assist in transiting the narrow channel leading to the Chesapeake Bay. With an engine and/or a steering failure, there is little else the crew could have done to prevent catastrophe, Karatzas says.”
Source = https://www.npr.org/2024/03/27/1240899509/ship-bridge-collapse-dali

 

[DuckRyder]

In bridge policy, this is called "functionally obsolete" and it should be planned and budgeted for replacement whether or not it falls down. There was another major bridge where a truck veered off the road and hit one side beam, which ended up in a total collapse and many deaths.

They said in the media briefing how many "fracture critical" bridges there are in the US, it was not an insignificant number, but was a small fraction of the total number of bridges. They also said the MDT (or whatever the state arm is called) has 4 bridges, interesting enough they did not say how many of the 4 are "fracture critical".

 

[4WD]

@BigCahuna can possibly clarify

1. The ship was leaving our port

2. The ship was being piloted (assisted) by 2 of our harbor pilots which are tasked with bringing ships in and out of the harbor/channel (not sure of all day and night long.
This is not the task of the ships crew
I don’t think there is any conspiracy here but if thier was it will be found out. This isn’t like a plain crash the entree is alive and well to testify including OUR two harbor pilots who were present and in control of the helm as I understand it.

3. The ship does not have bow thrusters or anything other than one huge propeller.

Loading…

www.cnn.com

Accident I am sure unless proven otherwise but safe to say the crew in the control bridge didn’t intentionally ram the into the bridge.
“The ship reportedly had aboard two harbor pilots — personnel with specialized knowledge of the port who assist with navigation — to assist in transiting the narrow channel leading to the Chesapeake Bay. With an engine and/or a steering failure, there is little else the crew could have done to prevent catastrophe, Karatzas says.”
Source = https://www.npr.org/2024/03/27/1240899509/ship-bridge-collapse-dali

M/V Dali has a 4000 HP bow thruster

 

[alarmguy]

M/V Dali has a 4000 HP bow thruster

Thank you I deleted my incorrect statement on that

 

[4WD]

Thank you I deleted my incorrect statement on that

They are generally used for very low speed maneuvers …

 

[hrv]

I generally have to cross the I-71/-75 Brent Spence once or twice a day into KY-it’s generally white knuckle even without thinking about a barge running into a pier.

We have the same type bridge here in Louisville and is being worked on now to extend its life....

 

[demarpaint]

The bridge is one thing, what about all of that hazmat on that ship? Who pays for that possible nightmare? My bet is they downplay it big time.