Francis Scott Key Bridge (Baltimore) hit by Cargo Ship and Collapsed

mk378 said:
In bridge policy, this is called "functionally obsolete" and it should be planned and budgeted for replacement whether or not it falls down. There was another major bridge where a truck veered off the road and hit one side beam, which ended up in a total collapse and many deaths.


Many four and 6 lane suburban surface roads have this volume.
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Like when emergency lanes get consumed as space for more lanes …
 
DuckRyder said:
Interesting word choices in the media briefing "satisfactory" condition and so forth.

Apparently no redundancy in the structure and it was termed "fracture critical" meaning that the failure of any span would result in the entire bridge failing.

Which also brings up the question of cost to rebuild the same structure vs a structure up to current engineering and traffic standards, they say an average of 30,000 is vehicles a day cross it which seems very high to me.

Anyway.
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Bridges like this are not built anymore, for obvious reasons as demonstrated in this incident. It's going to be expensive to replace and tax payers will be paying for it up front. This will be in litigation for 10's of years and the government is not going to wait for the case to be resolved to start the reconstruction. The cost is a drop in the bucket compared to what the governments annual budget is. Just need to crank up the $ printing press like we've been doing for the last lord knows how many years. In the meantime they need to get the channel cleared asap so the port can be reopened.
 
DuckRyder said:
Which also brings up the question of cost to rebuild the same structure vs a structure up to current engineering and traffic standards, they say an average of 30,000 is vehicles a day cross it which seems very high to me.
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Are those Key Bridge numbers? Because I can tell you that the number of cars that cross the Key Bridge is only a small fraction of the number that travel along the beltway north of town (which is much wider and traffic choked).
 
Arch Stanton said:
Bridges like this are not built anymore, for obvious reasons as demonstrated in this incident. It's going to be expensive to replace and tax payers will be paying for it up front. This will be in litigation for 10's of years and the government is not going to wait for the case to be resolved to start the reconstruction. The cost is a drop in the bucket compared to what the governments annual budget is. Just need to crank up the $ printing press like we've been doing for the last lord knows how many years. In the meantime they need to get the channel cleared asap so the port can be reopened.
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I see/cross these more often now days

IMG_2240.jpeg
 
Anyone for a pair of dedicated, high volume transit lines added to the replacement bridge?

I wonder what the percentage of the Key's traffic was through vs local.
 
zzyzzx said:
Are those Key Bridge numbers? Because I can tell you that the number of cars that cross the Key Bridge is only a small fraction of the number that travel along the beltway north of town (which is much wider and traffic choked).
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“While I-895 sees about 77,000 vehicles a day and I-95 sees about 168,000 in Baltimore, the Key Bridge only had a volume of about 31,000 vehicles daily.“

Key Bridge loss in Baltimore worsens traffic, alternate routes advised

wjla.com wjla.com
 
Kira said:
Anyone for a pair of dedicated, high volume transit lines added to the replacement bridge?

I wonder what the percentage of the Key's traffic was through vs local.
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Volume does not justify transit lines. Quite frankly, I think the only reason the bridge exists is because they don't allow certain types of loads through the two tunnels. That, and one of the two tunnels (the 895 tunnel) is old and frequently undergoing maintenance which causes one of the tubes to be closed. When that happens, you have a single 2 lane tunnel where the traffic flows in one lane for each direction, and it gets really slow. That's going to be an even bigger problem that people are going to have to plan around.

Also, given what's on both ends of the bridge, I don't think there would be a demand for a pedestrian access either. Nobody wants to go on a jog or walk to what used to be a steel mill and now an Amazon and Home Depot warehouse.
 
Summary of what happened on board. Ship lost all power. Lights were on backup generator. They dropped anchor and turned rudder hard to port but had no control.

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www.washingtonpost.com
 
alarmguy said:
@BigCahuna can possibly clarify

1. The ship was leaving our port

2. The ship was being (assisted) by 2 of our onboard harbor pilots which are tasked with bringing ships in and out of the harbor/channel.

I don’t think there is any conspiracy here but if there was it will be found out. This isn’t like a plane crash the entire crew is alive and well to testify including OUR two harbor pilots who were onboard and assists in control of the helm guiding it out of the harbor as I understand it.

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www.cnn.com

Accident I am sure unless proven otherwise but safe to say the crew in the helm didn’t intentionally ram the into the bridge.

“The ship reportedly had aboard two harbor pilots — personnel with specialized knowledge of the port who assist with navigation — to assist in transiting the narrow channel leading to the Chesapeake Bay. With an engine and/or a steering failure, there is little else the crew could have done to prevent catastrophe, Karatzas says.”
Source = https://www.npr.org/2024/03/27/1240899509/ship-bridge-collapse-dali
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I wasn't aware there were 2 Pilots on board. But there could have been 10 Pilots on board and the end result, would have been the same. The Harbor Pilots do not touch the controls of the ship. They will be on the bridge, and instructing the ships Pilot what heading to steer the ship. It's not like a movie where a Pilot will run up to the bridge, throw the ships Pilot out of the way, take control of the ship, and save the day from certain disaster. I'm certain if the ships Captain and crew could have prevented the accident for happening, they would have. But like anything mechanical, if it can go wrong at some point, it will go wrong.,,
 
Multiple comments debating what insurance companies will pay for this but it seems many people have no experience with accidents, insurance, settlements, etc. You don't wait for things to be settled before doing anything, i.e. getting a car repaired or a replacement bought. Maryland or the US gov't aren't going to wait for the ship's insurance company before doing anything.
 
Hall said:
Multiple comments debating what insurance companies will pay for this but it seems many people have no experience with accidents, insurance, settlements, etc. You don't wait for things to be settled before doing anything, i.e. getting a car repaired or a replacement bought. Maryland or the US gov't aren't going to wait for the ship's insurance company before doing anything.
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The government - ie we the people will pay.
 
BigCahuna said:
I wasn't aware there were 2 Pilots on board. But there could have been 10 Pilots on board and the end result, would have been the same. The Harbor Pilots do not touch the controls of the ship. They will be on the bridge, and instructing the ships Pilot what heading to steer the ship. It's not like a movie where a Pilot will run up to the bridge, throw the ships Pilot out of the way, take control of the ship, and save the day from certain disaster. I'm certain if the ships Captain and crew could have prevented the accident for happening, they would have. But like anything mechanical, if it can go wrong at some point, it will go wrong.,,
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I agree 100%, yes I understand that the Harbor Pilots I referred to are there as advisors to help the captain steer the ship out of the harbor as it seems they do with all these ships. Since the pilots work for the harbor I am sure it will further help the investigation on what took place, they have to be extremely experienced as they do this day and night. I do agree, this was an accident unless proven otherwise such as some type of sabotage which I think highly unlikely and even more unlikely that any of the crew was involved.
I found your input very informative in here.
 
alarmguy said:
the Harbor Pilots I referred to are there as advisors to help the captain steer the ship
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I know nothing about ships but think about it - these "pilots" aren't or can't be familiar with the controls of the hundreds of ships they guide through these waterways. Yes, they "advise" the experts that are familiar with the ship where to go.
 
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