Fram Ultra not ok for my 2018 Impala??

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by carviewsonic

"The Wix oil filter for your 2018 Impala with the V-6 engine is part # WL10255" Thanks for that, I have made note of it now. I don't know much about Wix filters, but I think they're decent. I don't like the ACDelco filters, if the few videos and forum threads I came across were accurate.

Agree! I liked the old AC Delco, prior to the bankruptcy proceeding last decade and their downward/declining changes made to the filter product afterwards. I threw my last (2) brand new Delco PF61 and my PF52 with nitrile, in the city recycle bin. Regret not taking them to a needy reclaim-shelter for the poor people. Someone poor could have used those filters. Not in the forseeable future will I buy Puro, Motorcraft and AC-affiliate brands.

 

[irv]

Originally Posted by irv

Originally Posted by carviewsonic

Posted by Irv Very interesting post, which now makes me a bit uncomfortable running these. ???" If my car wasn't under warranty, I would have run the Ultras. The Royal Purple tech I talked to this morning told me that in his opinion oil filter bypass specs by OEM's are a matter of design preference, rather than right or wrong. Cold start - No bypass event and somewhat reduced oil pressure vs bypass and unfiltered oil for a short time.

Our Impala is still under warranty too but I think I am going to use up what I have already purchased. No receipts, plus they are well past the 30 day return policy anyways. I am curious if GM's TSB takes into account the use of synthetic oil with regards to this TSB? With better cold flow properties than conventional, I am wondering just how necessary using another filter is? Also, since I have about 3 TG's on back up for this car, I wonder if the PSI settings on those are the same as the Ultra's? Also, going by the info you provided, the Ultra, although just barely, is still in spec. "Specifically, the Fram Ultra listed for my Impala has a Bypass Valve Setting of 9-15 psi. I just came across a GM service bulletin regarding the required spin on oil filter for my Impala, and the recommended GM filter Bypass Valve Setting is 14.5- 21.8 psi". CVS, how did you come across this TSB? Was it mailed to you or did you find it somewhere else? I find it funny/odd Fram would still recommend these filters for these Impalas with this TSB in affect? Maybe some more research is in order, if I can find anything else? Thanks for posting this up.

Well, I did some more reading and found out some more info. Imo, all is clear as mud. You have this guys post, which makes sense to me, but what do I know? "My take on this whole bypass valve thing is that the higher (22 psi) relief pressure is beneficial ONLY if the filter isn't changed for extended periods. I suspect GM revised the filter spec only to show a longer service life. Internal filter pressure builds as the medium becomes clogged with debris, so a higher relief pressure allows more particulates to build up before a bypass condition is reached. That's all. A higher bypass relief pressure is NOT more beneficial for the motor than a lower one. In fact, it's worse. For those of us who change our filters with every oil change, a lower relief pressure (eg. 12 - 15 psi) is preferable, because this provides better oil flow into the engine components during cold start conditions. I've been using a Bosch 3502 oil filter ever since I bought the car. I drain the oil and change the filter about ever 3K miles (at about 60% on the Oil Life display), and I ALWAYS send a used oil sample to Blackstone Labs for analysis. Every report I get back is a rave review. My wear metals are all well below average for an LFX motor, and everything else looks great too. Trust me, if you change your oil and filter reasonably often, you want a lower bypass pressure. On the other hand, if you want to leave that filter in the car until [censored] freezes over, go with a filter having a higher bypass pressure, but expect more engine wear. Just sayin'. And this guys post which also makes sense to me. "Hmm, so my 2012 Impala isn't listed - I guess I don't have to worry about, eh? :-) We keep talking about making sure to reference the latest manufacturer documentation, so surely this doesn't apply to me? But seriously, this document is nothing new - it's just stating that if you use *cheap* aftermarket oil filters and they fail, it's on you. That is nothing new, is not specific to GM cars and is common-sense, if you ask me. However, *any* oil filter can fail - even AC-Delco filters - did you ever see the pictures of the insides of the PFxxe oil filters? People have posted pictures of the oil filter media being sucked into the engine with those as well - mainly because of the poorly constructed backing material (plastic) and the size of the "holes" in it. They are definitely not what I would consider high-quality oil filters. Sure, GM will cover the damage if it's an AC-Delco filter, but I'd rather not have the damage in the first place. The Wix filters that people have been discussing are VERY high-quality filters. The information is out there (although, a LOT of the photobucket pictures are now gone!) - whether someone uses that information to make their decision or simply relies on a GM document, that is on them. But we do have to remember that GM makes money from AC-Delco sales, so they are biased - they are never going to tell you that X brand of oil filters are better that AC-Delco... In the end, my goal is to not need repairs - warranty coverage or not - so I'm going to use products that reduce the chances of failure as much as possible, whatever the brand. I typically *do* use AC-Delco for most parts, but in the case of the e-core oil filters, I don't feel that they are the best option based on the information I've seen and read. To each their own though. :-) I think we've beaten this whole oil filter topic to death now. It's obvious that GM wants you to use parts that they make money from - regardless of whether they truly are "better" or not - and we have to keep that in mind. Also, let's not forget that they have reduced the warranty coverage, and most people will not see an oil-related failure within the warranty period anyway. Here is the link he is referring to. " https://gm.oemdtc.com/7082/10-06-01...ck-cadillac-chevrolet-gmc-pontiac-saturn The whole thread can be found here. https://www.impalaforums.com/chevy-impala-8th-gen-discussion/1772474-oil-filter.html And another. Personally, I think I will stay away from AC Delco filters. https://www.impalaforums.com/chevy-impala-9th-gen-discussion/1742258-oil-filters-expensive.html

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by irv

You have this guys post, which makes sense to me, but what do I know? A higher bypass relief pressure is NOT more beneficial for the motor than a lower one. In fact, it's worse. For those of us who change our filters with every oil change, a lower relief pressure (eg. 12 - 15 psi) is preferable, because this provides better oil flow into the engine components during cold start conditions.

The only time that the engine wouldn't be getting the same oil flow is when the oil pump goes into pressure relief. The filter bypass valve operates independently of the pump pressure relief valve. It's the total delta-p across the oil filter that adds to making the pump approach a pressure relief mode. So as an example, if an oil pump's pressure relief was set to 80 PSI, and if there as 40 PSI of pressure developed by the engine's oiling system, with an additional 5 PSI from the filter, then the pump output would run at 45 PSI which is 35 PSI below the pump pressure relief setting. If the filter built up a delta-p of 30 PSI from getting clogged up, then the pump would be putting out 75 PSI but sill not in pressure relief, and all the flow coming out of the pump would still be going to the engine - still no lack of oil flow going to the engine. If the filter's bypass valve was set to 20 PSI, then it would also have be open since delta-p of 20 PSI across the filter. The wrinkle is if the bypass valve flow area is enough to handle the flow and not contribute to an increased delta-p across the filter - this is something that there is no data available to determine, but the filter maker should/would probably know. If the delta-p across the filter was higher than 35 PSI, then the pump would be in pressure relief, and some flow would would be cut back going to the engine. That is the start of the pump cutting back flow to the engine. So saying that a higher filter bypass valve setting is "better" isn't really true because of how the filter bypass valve and pump pressure relief valve work independently. What really has an impact of adequate flow to the engine is the max delta-p that the filter creates, and it needs to be kept low so it doesn't force the oil pump into pressure relief mode.

 

[oldmaninsc]

I've used the PF63 on my Impala for the last 60K+ miles with no problem though when the dealership did the first two changes they used the PF63E. Over 80K miles now, my engine is still going strong and I haven't heard of any 3.6 engines imploding or having oil related problems. I will probably use the PF63E on the Traverse and not worry about it.

 

[carviewsonic]

Irv, The first post you highlighted has me questioning how much extra wear could there be when we're really only talking about a few psi difference in bypass values? With a quality synthetic media filter and synthetic oil I think bypass events wouldn't happen too often anyway. I agree completely with the second post you highlighted, I wasn't all that impressed with the e-core ACDelco filters that I saw on youtube. They must work fine most of the time however, as I'm sure there are many many thousands of them in service right now. I just returned the Ultras to Walmart the other day, and have a couple Royal Purple filters on the way from Amazon. Amazon's price is close to Walmart's Fram Ultra price, just a few bucks more. I could have gone with Wix instead, they meet GM's spec, so maybe next time. The difference between the Ultra bypass spec (9-15 psi) vs the Royal Purple spec (18-22 psi) is only a few psi really, so I don't think it would make much difference either way. Engine oil pressure on a very cold start would be something like 60-65 psi I think. Possibly at a particular cold start temperature, the Ultra bypass would be wide open while the Royal Purple bypass would be partially open, with some oil still flowing through each filter. If I couldn't have returned the Ultras so easily, I certainly would have used them.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by carviewsonic

Engine oil pressure on a very cold start would be something like 60-65 psi I think. Possibly at a particular cold start temperature, the Ultra bypass would be wide open while the Royal Purple bypass would be partially open, with some oil still flowing through each filter.

The oil pressure you see on the dash has nothing to do with when the oil filter bypass valve will open up. As I explained above, the filter bypass valve only operated due to the pressure drop (delta-p) across just the oil filter.

 

[carviewsonic]

ZeeOSix, Just meant to say that the difference in pressure after either filter (in bypass mode) is only a few psi out of a total of 60ish psi. I didn't illustrate that point very well. Maybe still didn't

 

[irv]

Thanks for the info guys. I am having a hard time understanding your post, Z? If I am reading it right, you are also saying a lower PSI relief is better than a high one? Obviously, I can't say what is going on inside my wife's 3.6, but it runs super quiet and smooth. I have had 2 Ultras on there now, both winter and summer, and I have never noticed anything that made me take a second listen nor have I ever seen any engine lights on? Of course that is inconclusive but it's all I've got.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Any dry cold-starts Irv? That's been a problem using Ultras with my GMs. Mine sit vertical on the engine too, threads up at the top.

 

[irv]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en

Any dry cold-starts Irv? That's been a problem using Ultras with my GMs. Mine sit vertical on the engine too, threads up at the top.

Not that I am aware of, Triple. My filter sits horizontally with maybe a slight downward slope to the closed end of the filter. With the ADV, I assume the filter stays mostly full but of course there is no way of actually proving that it does. On start up, the engine seems to run very quiet, especially once it comes down from fast idle. My ears aren't what they use to be but I have to really listen sometimes to tell if the engine is running or not. This vid is on a 2015 but it's the same as ours. (not my vid)

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by irv

I am having a hard time understanding your post, Z? If I am reading it right, you are also saying a lower PSI relief is better than a high one?

I'm saying that the oil filter bypass valve operates independently of the oil pump pressure relief valve, and that the only time an oil filter effects the amount of oil flow to the engine is when the filter's flow resistance is very high, which causes a very high delta-p across the filter. A condition like that will cause the oil pump to hit pressure relief sooner, and therefore cause some reduced oil flow to the engine. You could have a filter with no bypass valve, and the pump would still supply the same amount of oil to the engine as long as the pump never hit pressure relief. Having a higher set bypass valve just ensures that the filter doesn't go into bypass with elevated delta-p across the filter. It doesn't mean the higher bypass valve setting reduces flow to the engine. Only conditions that cause the oil pump to hit pressure relief much sooner is what causes less oil to make it to the engine's oiling system.

 

[irv]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix

Originally Posted by irv

I am having a hard time understanding your post, Z? If I am reading it right, you are also saying a lower PSI relief is better than a high one?

I'm saying that the oil filter bypass valve operates independently of the oil pump pressure relief valve, and that the only time an oil filter effects the amount of oil flow to the engine is when the filter's flow resistance is very high, which causes a very high delta-p across the filter. A condition like that will cause the oil pump to hit pressure relief sooner, and therefore cause some reduced oil flow to the engine. You could have a filter with no bypass valve, and the pump would still supply the same amount of oil to the engine as long as the pump never hit pressure relief. Having a higher set bypass valve just ensures that the filter doesn't go into bypass with elevated delta-p across the filter. It doesn't mean the higher bypass valve setting reduces flow to the engine. Only conditions that cause the oil pump to hit pressure relief much sooner is what causes less oil to make it to the engine's oiling system.

Thanks for the explanation, Z. I understand what you were trying to say much better now