Fram Titanium FS10575 C&P

BrendanC said:
the media could be a flat wall and capture the same amount of particulate. the media is only shaped the way it is to fit more media in the canister itself.
Click to expand...
It’s not about the shape. Think about a well woven piece of cloth being held up suspended on all for corners catching a constant flow of air. It would catch a lot of debris. Now picture it’s suddenly slacked off and and begins flopping around in the wind. A lot of stuff is gonna fall out.
Yeah the filter media is made in a way that it’s supposed to catch and hold particles but when it’s bending and flapping all around it’s not even reasonable to believe it’s retaining everything it catches.
Look I’m just looking out for ya here , Kiddo.
 
Plawan said:
It’s not about the shape. Think about a well woven piece of cloth being held up suspended on all for corners catching a constant flow of air. It would catch a lot of debris. Now picture it’s suddenly slacked off and and begins flopping around in the wind. A lot of stuff is gonna fall out.
Yeah the filter media is made in a way that it’s supposed to catch and hold particles but when it’s bending and flapping all around it’s not even reasonable to believe it’s retaining everything it catches.
Look I’m just looking out for ya here , Kiddo.
Click to expand...
who is to say it’s “flapping” around in the wind in use. it may deform and the hold that shape. regardless i do not use, recommend or like the new ultra’s anymore. it is either PG XL or Fram endurance for me. also, please no pet names.
 
BrendanC said:
who is to say it’s “flapping” around in the wind in use. it may deform and the hold that shape. regardless i do not use, recommend or like the new ultra’s anymore. it is either PG XL or Fram endurance for me. also, please no pet names.
Click to expand...
I’d hope the filter media isn’t flapping around in the wind. We gotta much bigger issue if so lol.
 
As for wavy pleats, this has been discussed countless times before.
Ignoring the topic of tears or other media voids, the pleat waves have no effect on filtration efficiency.
Most any media is either backed by a physical structure (wire backing), or is treated with a porous resin to stiffen the media.
Either way, it does not "flap" in use from the oil flowing through it.

The waves are created when the linear distance of the filter is altered (shortened) by the compressive force of the spring to seat the media to the base-plate. The media will yield slightly to relieve the compressive force. It's presumed harmless (assuming, again, no voids are present) because there is zero evidence to show otherwise. There is no SAE study I'm aware of to indicate wavy pleats are a risk in and of themselves. Rather, the fear is unfounded hyperbole. Both coil and leaf spring styles occasionally exhibit this trait.
 
dnewton3 said:
As for wavy pleats, this has been discussed countless times before.
Ignoring the topic of tears or other media voids, the pleat waves have no effect on filtration efficiency.
Most any media is either backed by a physical structure (wire backing), or is treated with a porous resin to stiffen the media.
Either way, it does not "flap" in use from the oil flowing through it.

The waves are created when the linear distance of the filter is altered (shortened) by the compressive force of the spring to seat the media to the base-plate. The media will yield slightly to relieve the compressive force. It's presumed harmless (assuming, again, no voids are present) because there is zero evidence to show otherwise. There is no SAE study I'm aware of to indicate wavy pleats are a risk in and of themselves. Rather, the fear is unfounded hyperbole. Both coil and leaf spring styles occasionally exhibit this trait.
Click to expand...
I mentioned spring pressure decay in a previous thread - however - I don’t know if the pressure is restored - the worst “looking” of my used filters had a cocked spring - which could create an oil bypass to the core. This is not the standard “nested wave” I see on my Mopar.
I can only recreate this pattern with a light force on the end cap as shown here … (that’s buckled):

IMG_9891.jpeg
 
FlyingVan said:
Wow, calling others names over an oil filter? No words.....
Click to expand...
If this is in reference to me, I wasn’t intending to be derogatory I’m just an old guy. I didn’t interpret anything anybody said as derogatory in this thread.

Anyway I understand the above response to my “flapping”pleats theory lol. I’m sure I was poking some fun by wording it in that way😄.
I do disagree that it’s not an issue. I think whatever they are doing with the fram ultras to strengthen or support the media isn’t working well. I do believe the pleats are being excessively moved around by the oil flow.
I guess my question for whoever has cut these open is how easy do the pleats move around when your push which your fingers. Even still that’s not the same as when in use and under extreme temperatures.
I understand there is ISO testing and all that. If we consider that there was ISO testing in the “tearolator” days it brings to question ,how did they get past it when the issue was as wide spread as we saw? They weren’t fined or reprimanded or ran out of business as far as I know? Rules are made to be broken in business and politics.
 
dnewton3 said:
The waves are created when the linear distance of the filter is altered (shortened) by the compressive force of the spring to seat the media to the base-plate. The media will yield slightly to relieve the compressive force.
Click to expand...
To add ... this is only true on cartridge filters that have no center tube type support to bear the compressive load on the ends of the filter cartridge. Spin-on filters have a center core which takes all the compressive load going on from the coil or leaf spring in the dome end of the filter. That force isn't enough to cause the end caps to move closer together, so the pleats that become "wavy" in a spin-on filter is due to the media swelling and pleats growing in length. The extra length has to go someplace, and the end caps can't move, to the pleats bend and become "wavy". Agreed that wavy pleats (if not torn) don't hurt anything but feelings, and anyone thinking the pleats are "waving around" like a flag in the wind and causing the media to be less efficiency is way out in the misconception weeds, lol.
 
Plawan said:
I understand there is ISO testing and all that. If we consider that there was ISO testing in the “tearolator” days it brings to question ,how did they get past it when the issue was as wide spread as we saw? They weren’t fined or reprimanded or ran out of business as far as I know? Rules are made to be broken in business and politics.
Click to expand...
How did who "get past it"? I'm sure Purolator/M+H knew 10+ years ago and still knows all about wavy pleats, and know it's only a visual aspect. Sure there has been ISO 4548-12 efficiency testing standard since around 2000. People didn't lose their minds over wavy pleats when all the Purolator C&Ps showed wavy pleats - some Purolator/M+H made filters still show wavy pleats even now. But seems only wavy Ultras/Titaniums get people triggered.
 
Last edited:
4WD said:
I mentioned spring pressure decay in a previous thread - however - I don’t know if the pressure is restored - the worst “looking” of my used filters had a cocked spring - which could create an oil bypass to the core. This is not the standard “nested wave” I see on my Mopar.
I can only recreate this pattern with a light force on the end cap as shown here … (that’s buckled):

1717703372369.jpeg
Click to expand...
The force of the leaf spring on the end cap puts the compressive force on the center tube, not on the edges of the end caps. The wavy pleats are not caused by the compressive forces of the leaf spring on the center tube. If it did, C&Ps of new filters would show wavy pleats if the leaf spring was actually making the end caps move towards each other. If there was no center tube in the cartrige of a spin-on, then the foce of the leaf spring might make the end caps move towards each other, but with a center tube they physically can't unless the center tube collapses, and they are not that weak in compression.
 
ZeeOSix said:
How did who "get past it"? I'm sure Purolator/M+H knew 10+ years ago and still knows all about wavy pleats, and know it's only a visual aspect. Sure there has been ISO 4548-12 efficiency testing standard since around 2000. People didn't lose their minds over wavy pleats when all the Purolator C&Ps showed wavy pleats - some Purolator/M+H made filters still show wavy pleats even now. But seems only wavy Ultras/Titaniums get people triggered.
Click to expand...
How did Ma+H get past all the testing when the media was tearing a lot? Ya know since ISO-4548-12 is the holy grail of testing ends all debate. Did the tears in the media not affect filtration? Did they just get lucky with every filter tested and never had bad ones tested? Is there an Acceptable failure rate according to the ISO standards? Or is it possible that there are ways around?
I have no reason to believe that the media in the new ultras that buckles and or bends excessively is fine. Not convinced just because they say it’s fine or because they “adhere to ISO testing standards that it’s ok.
 
Plawan said:
How did Ma+H get past all the testing when the media was tearing a lot? Ya know since ISO-4548-12 is the holy grail of testing ends all debate. Did the tears in the media not affect filtration? Did they just get lucky with every filter tested and never had bad ones tested? Is there an Acceptable failure rate according to the ISO standards? Or is it possible that there are ways around?
I have no reason to believe that the media in the new ultras that buckles and or bends excessively is fine. Not convinced just because they say it’s fine or because they “adhere to ISO testing standards that it’s ok.
Click to expand...
If a manufacturer ISO tested a filter and it didn't perform as expected, it would be opened for inspection to find out why. They most likely cut open every filter they test just to inspect the guts anyway as part of the testing. No evidence that pleats that don't stay straight effects the efficiency - the media has to tear, not just bend or twist to effect the efficiency. As mentioned in some other threads discussing wavy pleats, it's typically caused by the media absorbing moister (from combustion blow-by in engines) or condensation/water getting into other systems like hydraulics, etc that use filters.

Obviously, if the looks after use or skepticism of what kind of negative juju wavy pleats cause is a concern to someone, then they need to seek out filters that look better and make them all fuzzy knowing it's at least a C&P centerfold contender. People posted hundreds of wavy Purolators without tears over the years on this site, but the "age of the filter centerfold" wasn't hot back then, so people took it as something that happens to some filters during use which didn't effect functionally, and they didn't lose their minds over it like they do now, lol.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

BrendanC
Fram Titanium FS10575 TORN C&P
2
Replies
34
Views
2K
Glenda W.
BrendanC
Fram Titanium FS10575 C&P
Replies
19
Views
631
odie
BrendanC
Fram Titanium FS10575 C&P
Replies
13
Views
560
4WD
BrendanC
Fram Titanium FS10575 C&P
2
Replies
25
Views
1K
Scott S
BrendanC
Fram Titanium FS10575 C&P
Replies
10
Views
550
ZeeOSix
Back
Top