Fram PH3600 C&P. Pending tear?

[cb4017]

This came off my daughter's 200K mile Jeep Liberty. 4K miles on the filter with 10w-30 ST HM Synthetic. One pleat was folded over pretty good and appears to start tearing at each end of the pleat. Valvoline R&P 5w-30 and a TG3600 went back in. Her Liberty does use oil so I'm curious if the R&P will help any.

 

[Glenda W.]

Definitely a recipe for a tear. Thanks for the c&p.

 

[BrendanC]

this is why i refuse to run a paper end cap filter

 

[paulri]

Yeah I was originally thinking that the EG3600 would be my go to filter for 8-10K, but then I cut one open and it wasn't that bad, but it looked at 5K like it was just about to tear. Now, I've got TG3600s on my cars and in the next few months I'll do a C&P with both at around 9-10K, and see what they are like. Thanks for letting us see.

 

[kschachn]

this is why i refuse to run a paper end cap filter

I’m not sure I understand that. The filtering media is tearing, not the attachment to the end cap.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ Yeah, it was the wide pleat spacing causing the problem. Wide pleat spacing can cause media tears regardless of what the end caps are made out of.

 

[martinq]

I’m not sure I understand that. The filtering media is tearing, not the attachment to the end cap.

Yes, I've never understood the blowback against the paper end-caps, the filter media is paper. So ... only use metal-mesh filters with no paper?

If this was me I would stop using the PH3600. One of the reasons to inspect a filter after it's used is to identify problems and avoid or correct them.

 

[Zee09]

As Nancy used to say...
Just say no.....

 

[BrendanC]

I’m not sure I understand that. The filtering media is tearing, not the attachment to the end cap.

^^^ Yeah, it was the wide pleat spacing causing the problem. Wide pleat spacing can cause media tears regardless of what the end caps are made out of.

you are both correct, the issue boils down to paper end caps are cheap jobber level filters with substandard media, construction and quality of materials.

 

[KCJeep]

We’ve seen plenty of tears in filters with metal end caps as well. As usual the real culprit here is pleat spacing.

 

[kschachn]

you are both correct, the issue boils down to paper end caps are cheap jobber level filters with substandard media, construction and quality of materials.

I prefer ones without end caps, although the fiber ones are all right. The only ones we’ve regularly seen separating from the media are metal ones.

Your generalization about quality has no basis in realty.

 

[Fair enough]

On the tear side the end cap looks pulled a little by the bending media, maybe
helping the pleat not to tear. But it did anyway. I am guessing rigid metal would be worse.

 

[BrendanC]

I prefer ones without end caps, although the fiber ones are all right. The only ones we’ve regularly seen separating from the media are metal ones.

Your generalization about quality has no basis in realty.

so you’re going to tell me that a PH and TG are in the same quality level of a premium guard or endurance?

 

[fantastic]

I'm with @Zee09 ...Listen to Nancy No.
Thanks for posting

 

[ZeeOSix]

The level of "quality" is directly connected to manufacturing correctness. I've seen PH filters that look really good, and I've seen some look really bad. Same with many M+H filters. There's typically nothing wrong with the design, but if you can't manufacture a product to the engineering design and specification, then you end up with bad quality. The buck stops or not at the factory manufacturing level unless the design is bad to begin with.

 

[RooflessVW]

The FD3600 I just cut open looked perfect. It was an e-core. Guess it was Champ made?

 

[Mewbs]

The FD3600 I just cut open looked perfect. It was an e-core. Guess it was Champ made?

Yeah the Drive series filters from FRAM are champ made for AAP, identical to GM AC Delco just painted orange. The PH3600 is a classic FRAM. Not sure if FirstBrands decided to fully consolidate the Extra Guard line to Champ designs but as far as I've seen at walmart the 4967 and 7317 have gotten the change...

 

[kschachn]

so you’re going to tell me that a PH and TG are in the same quality level of a premium guard or endurance?

Quality to me is a filter that has mechanical stability (doesn’t tear or have the end caps detach) and has superior filtering efficiency.

One thing I do not do is worship at this goofy altar of brand bias like some appear to do.

 

[wemay]

so you’re going to tell me that a PH and TG are in the same quality level of a premium guard or endurance?

I believe you're making gross generalizations and false equivalencies here.

The tearing has nothing to do with price point or tier level of a filter.

 

[BrendanC]

Quality to me is a filter that has mechanical stability (doesn’t tear or have the end caps detach) and has superior filtering efficiency.

One thing I do not do is worship at this goofy altar of brand bias like some appear to do.

everything you listed is what a premium guard is doing at the minute. i still use Fram Endurances weekly as i do premium guards.

I believe you're making gross generalizations and false equivalencies here.

The tearing has nothing to do with price point or tier level of a filter.

this tier of filter is competing with jobber filters. the PH lineis built as cheaply as possible minus having a silicone ADBV. cheap filters are built to a lower standard than higher tier filters. look at purolator and fram. their lower tier filters are tearing. i am including the previous M1 filter and Ultra here. compare these to an endurance or a BOSS with reinforced dual ply media, they don’t tear. circling back to kschachn’s point, both of these filters are indeed flawed. Endurance currently doesn’t have a smooth leaf spring. this spans all of the Fram/champ filter lineup at the moment. The boss is built like an absolute tank yet has poor efficiency. this is why we are all hyper focused on Premium guard XL filters at the moment.

regardless, i will bow out now. thanks for the points and criticism.