are they really that bad I've used the orange cans for years and never had an oil related problem.
Fram oil filters, can they 10000 km oci.
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Short answer is that they are not that bad, just lower quality at a higher price.
Years ago, a friend of mine had a FRAM collapse and that prompted me to stop using them. That case was hardly statistically significant, though, being that most people who change their oil use frams, so even if all filters had problems at the same rate, you would still hear about more fram problems.
Years ago, a friend of mine had a FRAM collapse and that prompted me to stop using them. That case was hardly statistically significant, though, being that most people who change their oil use frams, so even if all filters had problems at the same rate, you would still hear about more fram problems.
I have probably used Frams for over a 1,000,000 miles and never a problem. Most of my vehicles were running great at 100,000 miles. When Eagle Signel bought Fram I suspect the quality may have gone down. I still think their OK but, there are better filter for the money. I now use Pureolator filters.
Actually no. I also like you have used FRAMs for years. It was not due to any brand loyalty per se. I usually bought on price. So for example, I bought a slug of AC Delco oem PF-44 filters for a Z06 Corvette at $2 per filter.
Fram's at the time were 2 for $5. Much as folks will want to convince you otherwise, it is a COMMODITY, and I have bought on price. It is not a real high quality product, but it has sure gotten the job done for me. I have run PH8A filters for years (14 years) and many miles (250,000) on a Toyota Landcruiser with FRAM filters, Mobil One 5w30 oil with 15,000 mile OCI's!!!
Trust me if FRAM (or anyone else for that matter) sells a filter at xxx price, the last thing they want to do is buy a $3k-$50k motor because the innards of the filter exploded in the oil system. Trust me if it were statistically true and relavent I'd be a lawyer and /or hire one and use FRAM exclusively waiting and hoping for one to explode and SUE SUE SUE. This would beat the lottery all to **** !!
So for example, if you buy a 10/15 dollar M1 filter, the best way to ask: is it 5/6 times better than the 2.50 ea FRAM??? More importantly, what does that REALLY mean?
Of late, Champion Labs, known for better quality than say FRAM, sells for cheaper at 2.07 per, masquerading as WM Supertech filters.
The upshot is even on this very specific board, there has been no confirmed and duplicatible statistical studies showing; for example, a FRAM will only let you go 250,000 miles vs a more expensive and "better" filter letting you go say 500,000 miles better. Or however you wish to say it. They do however document that some filters filter better than others. Or that some filters are MADE better.
There have been no real studies comparing the statisitical significance in an engine or engines run side by side, using say synthetic oil comparing a FRAM against the latest and greatest dujour filter!!!!
Normal filter logic goes something like this. Since it is better constructed and filters smaller particles out, yada yada, ^ (therfore) it must be better long term for your engine. While this is very very logical, and to a large degree I EVEN go along with it: it is very short on statistical analysis. Of course, some are indeed more pricey and better made.
The stuff that helps you with "EXTREME" longevity are products like bypass oil filters and preoilers. A very small % of folks even know about them and even smaller % actually USE these products. Even at less than 250. aftermarket prices, it is still not cost effective for the majority of folks; even folks who study a gear head web site like BOBSTHEOILGUY.
[ December 03, 2005, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]
Fram's at the time were 2 for $5. Much as folks will want to convince you otherwise, it is a COMMODITY, and I have bought on price. It is not a real high quality product, but it has sure gotten the job done for me. I have run PH8A filters for years (14 years) and many miles (250,000) on a Toyota Landcruiser with FRAM filters, Mobil One 5w30 oil with 15,000 mile OCI's!!!
Trust me if FRAM (or anyone else for that matter) sells a filter at xxx price, the last thing they want to do is buy a $3k-$50k motor because the innards of the filter exploded in the oil system. Trust me if it were statistically true and relavent I'd be a lawyer and /or hire one and use FRAM exclusively waiting and hoping for one to explode and SUE SUE SUE. This would beat the lottery all to **** !!
So for example, if you buy a 10/15 dollar M1 filter, the best way to ask: is it 5/6 times better than the 2.50 ea FRAM??? More importantly, what does that REALLY mean?
Of late, Champion Labs, known for better quality than say FRAM, sells for cheaper at 2.07 per, masquerading as WM Supertech filters.
The upshot is even on this very specific board, there has been no confirmed and duplicatible statistical studies showing; for example, a FRAM will only let you go 250,000 miles vs a more expensive and "better" filter letting you go say 500,000 miles better. Or however you wish to say it. They do however document that some filters filter better than others. Or that some filters are MADE better.
There have been no real studies comparing the statisitical significance in an engine or engines run side by side, using say synthetic oil comparing a FRAM against the latest and greatest dujour filter!!!!
Normal filter logic goes something like this. Since it is better constructed and filters smaller particles out, yada yada, ^ (therfore) it must be better long term for your engine. While this is very very logical, and to a large degree I EVEN go along with it: it is very short on statistical analysis. Of course, some are indeed more pricey and better made.
The stuff that helps you with "EXTREME" longevity are products like bypass oil filters and preoilers. A very small % of folks even know about them and even smaller % actually USE these products. Even at less than 250. aftermarket prices, it is still not cost effective for the majority of folks; even folks who study a gear head web site like BOBSTHEOILGUY.
[ December 03, 2005, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]
2000civic;
I just ran a Fram filter 9K KM on my '84 Accord and took it apart In Defense of Fram - cut open filter; no pics
I just ran a Fram filter 9K KM on my '84 Accord and took it apart In Defense of Fram - cut open filter; no pics
thans guys like i thought Fram can't be that bad
I am sure the Fram will still be there, and maybe no holes in the media. The question is, will what little media there is, be badly clogged leaving the filter in bypass much of the time? Or maybe what won't be there is the abrsive particles other filter would have filtered out.
A fair and sensible question. However, if ANY oil filter experiences that "catastrophic level" of debris in the oil filter, (system) ALL current oil filters are indeed designed to default to bypass. As a corollary, if one is experiencing that type of debris in his system the engine has FAR greater problems than the oil filter. In fact, due to the bypass design NO oil filter will save the system.
labman, after 9K KM or 5600 miles I can verify there was little dirt in between the pleats. I had to take a screwdriver and dig out the little dirt that was there - it was a gritty composition of something...carbon particles..?
Even if the dirty area between pleats was considered impassable (which I doubt it was), then it only would comprise
Since my Honda has terminal cancer and is not worth much anyhow, maybe I'll run the current fram for 15k KM and see what happens. My hunch is it would be fine for this car/conditions.
Even if the dirty area between pleats was considered impassable (which I doubt it was), then it only would comprise
Since my Honda has terminal cancer and is not worth much anyhow, maybe I'll run the current fram for 15k KM and see what happens. My hunch is it would be fine for this car/conditions.
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I'd say that sure the M1 is 5-6 times better then the Fram. The issue is more likely along the lines of ..even if the Fram were half of what it is ..would it make a difference in the normal life cycle of an extremely high percentages of cars that they are used on??
Not too many cars catastrophically fail. They die slowly and usually over mulitple owners. They typically hit the junkyard for other reasons then engine issues that can be traced to lubrication. Basically buying better filtration assures, as much as you can in regard to filtration, that the engine is in better health when it, or the rest of the vehicle, expires.
[ December 03, 2005, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
You can buy a Fram Extraguard (or) you can pay $1.25 more & get a real filter -- one that auto manufacturers use.
That Fram filter media looked fine because it went in bypass prematurely & unfiltered oil kept circulating around the engine. Also... the ADBV on that Fram make your motor chatter when starting it cold.
Keep using them! My vehicle is worth another $1.00-$1.50 every oil change. Motorcrafts by Purolator are the best buy out there.... right around $3.25 at Wally World. Bypass works & so does the threaded-end ADBV that keeps my caravan quieter on cold start-ups.
That Fram filter media looked fine because it went in bypass prematurely & unfiltered oil kept circulating around the engine. Also... the ADBV on that Fram make your motor chatter when starting it cold.
Keep using them! My vehicle is worth another $1.00-$1.50 every oil change. Motorcrafts by Purolator are the best buy out there.... right around $3.25 at Wally World. Bypass works & so does the threaded-end ADBV that keeps my caravan quieter on cold start-ups.
Triple;
I highly doubt my filter (see link in post above) was going into bypass. I pressed the bypass spring with my thumb and it takes a decent amount of force to open - why wouldn't the oil simply travel through the less restrictive media. I guess I'm assuming it's less restrictive since I don't see it covered with a layer of dirt/crud.
BTW, if it WAS going into bypass then that's a serious problem for Fram as I essentially held to the maintenance schedule of 7500 miles/7.5 months. IE it's not meeting OEM requirements for my vehicle ... or even the requirements of 1984! (year of my car).
As per the ADBV it appeared very supple. I don't have any bizarro sounds at startup nor does it take the oil pressure light >1s to turn off.
My car is old and only needs the cheapest filter. My Volvo gets Mann filter. But for the Honda it appeared to perform just fine.
I highly doubt my filter (see link in post above) was going into bypass. I pressed the bypass spring with my thumb and it takes a decent amount of force to open - why wouldn't the oil simply travel through the less restrictive media. I guess I'm assuming it's less restrictive since I don't see it covered with a layer of dirt/crud.
BTW, if it WAS going into bypass then that's a serious problem for Fram as I essentially held to the maintenance schedule of 7500 miles/7.5 months. IE it's not meeting OEM requirements for my vehicle ... or even the requirements of 1984! (year of my car).
As per the ADBV it appeared very supple. I don't have any bizarro sounds at startup nor does it take the oil pressure light >1s to turn off.
My car is old and only needs the cheapest filter. My Volvo gets Mann filter. But for the Honda it appeared to perform just fine.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
There are folks here that swear by them.
Then there's folks here who swear at them.
I've seen enough photos of used ones in the Oil Filters Message Boad.
Not something I trust. To me, trust is worth spending around $1.25 more for a Motorcaft, non-Ecore AC Delco or Purolator Pure One on sale.
Then there's folks here who swear at them.
I've seen enough photos of used ones in the Oil Filters Message Boad.
Not something I trust. To me, trust is worth spending around $1.25 more for a Motorcaft, non-Ecore AC Delco or Purolator Pure One on sale.
i've done my fair share of swearing at them, for the longest time i couldn't get rid of dry start-ups after a vehicle sat for a day or 2.
heard that most frams had a faulty adbv.
changed the filter to Motorcraft....never had a problem again.
now i know there are a few bad filters out there.....but i experienced this with several right in a row with more then one vehicle.
No more dry-startups with Motorcrafts so far.
heard that most frams had a faulty adbv.
changed the filter to Motorcraft....never had a problem again.
now i know there are a few bad filters out there.....but i experienced this with several right in a row with more then one vehicle.
No more dry-startups with Motorcrafts so far.
JK,
I agree. I've had the same issue with FRAM,(ADBV). Now I use just about anything else although mostly Purolator Prem +......I used Fram for many years when I could get them for $2.00 or less. I would use Super Tech at Wal-Mart almost exclusivly because I think that they are great filters with good Media and construction,(I have cut open many ST's), but, I have the same ADBV issue with ST as well on 3 of my 4 vehicles.
I agree. I've had the same issue with FRAM,(ADBV). Now I use just about anything else although mostly Purolator Prem +......I used Fram for many years when I could get them for $2.00 or less. I would use Super Tech at Wal-Mart almost exclusivly because I think that they are great filters with good Media and construction,(I have cut open many ST's), but, I have the same ADBV issue with ST as well on 3 of my 4 vehicles.
Patman
Staff member
Sid, I keep telling you, the K&N oil filter is the way to go on your Civic!
Welcome aboard by the way, it's about time you joined up!
Welcome aboard by the way, it's about time you joined up!
I used Frams before too, but not exclusively, until I learned better. It won't necessarily grenade your engine, but the simple fact is that there are better quality filters available for the same money or less. If you must get a Fram, at least step up to a ToughGuard...but then you'll pay more than a Motorcraft or AC would cost.
Hey Pat, how did you know it was me. I can't believe all the info on this site man.
The only reason I am concerned about the Fram is because I have adbout 20 of them in my stockpile. Should I chuck them for the KN.
sell them on ebay
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