Fram filter failure

[Hasbeen]

Just got the De Tamoso Pantera back after being asembled! (Not my Car) I just maintain it! Car had about 20 (twenty) mile on it! I drained the oil and took off the filter only to feel something loose inside! I cut it apart to find that it looked like someone had squeezed the filter meadia in the middle and that it was not making contact with the top and bottom, Not cool in a new engine!

Hasbeen

 

[mangusta1969]

Not cool at all.

Since this is a new motor. I would put a Baldwin B2HPG filter in there and then change it again at 1000 miles or at about the halfway point of changing over from the original fill oil over to a full synthetic oil. The HPG filter has a combination of glass and cellulose media in it.

If you can't find the Baldwin on-line or at a truck/farm supply place, then use the equivalent Mobil One filter. It has substantially better small particle filtering capabilities according to several test sources.

The element probably collapsed due to high startup or overall high oil pressure. A common thing in the 70s and 80s was to beef up the oil pump or relief valve in the pump in order to get better oiling to the main bearings in these motors. Sometimes, 351 Cleveland builders also restricted the oil flow to the heads in order to provide better low main bearing oil flow and pressure.

The Fram has a flimsy center tube. Cut open the equivalent Mobil One or Baldwin filter for comparison.

The Pantera oil pressure gauge is not known for being too accurate, but what pressures do you see at startup, warm idle, warm running?

 

[TC]

"...it looked like someone had squeezed the filter meadia in the middle and that it was not making contact with the top and bottom." Perhaps this is Fram's new bypass design! Works like a charm...

Another problem with Fram's center tubes is a modest amount of hole opening area, creating both flow restriction and additional crushing pressure on the tube itself.

 

[Dan4510]

If you want a filter that's equal to the quality of the car, try either a donaldson p169071 or fleetguard lf3487. Both are fully synthetic media, flow 14 gpm. And filter down to 7 microns nominal.

Both are very good filters and provide for high flow. The also have metal center cylinders with large holes that do not slow down the flow.

Dan

[ December 21, 2003, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Dan4510 ]

 

[mangusta1969]

Dan,

Thanks for the Donaldson specs. That 14 gpm flow rating is pretty impressive. Do you know under what pressures (in/out) that flow was measured at?

I cannot find a good source for Donaldson flow information or even a good source to look up Donaldson filters by their vehicle/engine application. Can you point us to a url or supplier for good Donaldson information?

This is getting a bit off subject, but I have searched the donaldson.com site, and only their cross-reference utility seems to work; that is not a great way to look up filters. I am looking for a slightly oversize Donaldson filter to fit a 1990-95 Corvette ZR1 (DOHC motor).

 

[Jay]

The Pantera has a Ford V8 if I remember correctly. Is there anything unusual about the Pantera's oil system? Maybe a faulty pressure regulator caused your filter failure.

 

[Hasbeen]

The oil preasure in this engine never drops below 70 PSI and that is the max on the guage, even when warm! That`s a problem that needs to be fixed also as it never gets warmer than 95! Not sure if it even has a thurmostat! Can`t even see the front of the motor! It`s a 351 Clevland!

Hasbeen

 

[Dan4510]

The specs I have only list the flow. Not at what pressure, but they do list 4.38 differential pressure maximum with a clean element.

I cant get good info from donldson either. The quoted specs come from fleetguard. Since the elements both companies use are idential down to the number stamps on the filter cartridges the specs are the same.

Fleetguard did fax me a sheet on the lf3487 with the proviso that I did not post it anywhere.

Dan

 

[Jay]

Hasbeen, can you post a pic of the failed Fram? What model number was the Fram?

 

[Hasbeen]

Sorry, I didn`t have my camera with me that day, and I tore the filter element apart to wash it to search for fillings! It was an Extra Guard and I think a PF-8! If this is wrong I will post the right #`s tomorrow!

Hasbeen

 

[mangusta1969]

Hasbeen,

If the Cleveland motor has been fitted with a higher performance oil pump, it should output pressures at 70-90 psi when warmed up and running above 2000 rpm or so. I would leave that alone as these engines can use the extra pressure.

Unless your water temp is reading 95C, I doubt that your water temp gauge or sensor are reading correctly. If not done already, you should relocate the water temp sensor from the side of the overflow tank back to the standard location at the front of the engine's block. If the sensor is left in Detomaso's original location (on the overflow tank), you will frequently just be measuring air temperature. This is not accurate.

Trust me, there is just never a problem with these engines running too cool in a Pantera...

 

[Hasbeen]

Thanks Mangusta for your reply, the day I drove the car was a cool day and only drove it maybe 5-10 miles! I intend to drive the car more today! The temp sensor is indeed on the tank! I like your idea about moving it! What a pain in the A*s to get to the front of the engine!

The oil filter # is PH 8 A!

Hasdbeen

 

[mangusta1969]

Two pieces of advice from experience:
Lose that filter and change that temp. sensor location!

Let us know what kind of filter you end up installing and what kind of oil pressure you are seeing at startup, warm idle, and warm cruise.

Depending on the amount of corrosion from over the years, the drivers and passengers seats actually come out pretty easily with just 4 cap head bolts each. You might be able to pull the panel behind the seats just by folding the seat backs forward.

While the two engine bulkhead pieces are a little bit of a pain to remove, you will really like the front of engine accessibility once you have these off.

Definitely put new fan belts on if they are not brand new and carefully check all of the now accessible hoses and hose clamps.

While the panels are off, I would also check the engine's static and full advance timing and then put some equivalent timing marks on the back of the engine through the transaxle's flywheel/clutch inspection port. Then you can tune the engine without removing the front bulkhead connectors the next time. Good luck.

 

[Hasbeen]

Just got back from the break-in run! total of 75 miles on the engine now! Went through a 3,000 to 5,000 RPM, full throtle then back off completly! Did this about 20 times!

Temp guage isn`t working at all! found out the hard way that the car has a manual radiator fan switch!

Thanks again for anything you can tell me about this car! My email here at the shop is [email protected] Like i said, this is not my car, but i take care of the whole collection! This is definatly a different bread of cat!!

Now using a Napa Gold!

Oil preasure guage stays maxed out all the time, idle or cruising!

Hasbeen