Fram Endurance vs Purolator Boss oil filters

I get that there are measurable differences and that it can be useful to know this. And I'm glad that info is available to those who care and want only the best for their engines. But I still stand on the fact that the vast majority of vehicle owners don't know or care about this and use whatever filter the dealer or oil change shop puts on there, completely ignorant of it, without any noticeable consequence over the lifetime of their vehicle.
The mass majority of people just think "oil is oil" and a "filter is a filter" because they never deep dive into the subject matter like here on BITOG. So of course they wouldn't know the possible differences from using different levels of performing products.

"Without any noticeable consequences over the lifetime of their vehicle" isn't good enough for some people because an engine would have to be nearly on it's last leg before most people could detect "noticeable differences". Engines can still seem to "run pretty good" but actually be pretty worn out. Most people can't detect much from the driver's seat. Some people here go with "if it doesn't blow-up the engine, it's working fine" kind of logic. Whatever makes 'em happy. Keeping oil cleaner through better filtration over the length of an OCI is all about mitigating wear, regardless of how much less wear it causes. Many people think that way, and it really doesn't cost much more to buy a more efficient oil filter. And the ROI is increased if that a little more expensive filter is ran for longer OCIs, which is when a more efficient filter is more advantageous to oil cleanness. Many here run a high efficiency 20K mile rated filter for two or three 5000 mile OCIs to increase the ROI, which is totally doable on an engine that's well maintained and relatively clean (not a sludger).

Information and choice is good. But I think the importance of a high efficiency filter is being overstated IMO.
That's for each person to decide on their own based on the information about the subject matter. You need technical information to realize what's going on with performance, and make decisions based on the data. Pretty much everything in life operates that way. But there are always people who ignore or don't understand data, and they just make decisions on other people's decisions and on thier "feelings' about things. Everyone operates differently, and whatever they decide and how they decide choices is totally thier perogative.
 
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I've seen on a video the other day, it was said on certain vehicles, not to use long life oil filters because of the time it takes to get oil to the engine, on startup..
 
I've seen on a video the other day, it was said on certain vehicles, not to use long life oil filters because of the time it takes to get oil to the engine, on startup..
Misinformation ... got a link to the source?
 

I bet he's never seen and contemplated real ISO 4548-12 test data like Ascent did and showed here. He's living the popular misconception that the higher the filter's efficiency it's automatically a more restrictive filter - that's not always the case. That was a long time misconception going on with the Purolator PureONE until Purolator did a flow vs dP test showing it actually flowed very well - that's been discussed in many threads in this forum for years. The key to helping a filter have good flow is to increase the media area. The PureONEs had a lot of media area, because they were not full synthetic media. Full synthetic media doesn't need as much media area to get the flow vs dP down.

High efficiency filters can flow better than lower efficiency filters, like the Ultra shown by Ascent's testing - meaning less dP vs flow curve. And besides, the positive displacement oil pump will move the oil through the filter just as fast regardless if one is a bit more flow restrictive than the other. Typically, there's only around 1-3 PSI difference between the filters with hot oil flow at high flow rates. No oil filter is so restrictive that it's going to make any difference in the oil flow from the PD pump. The engine's oiling system is typically 15 times more restrictive to flow than the oil filter.
 
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Actually that's what I'm using now, is the Purolator Pureone for the second time, previously I was using Wix and Motorcraft..
 
I'm thinking there are people on here that work for Fram. I mean they fight like they have a financial interest. It's just an oil filter, boys
Never worked for Fram, but I’ve used a lot of OG Ultras, and a few OG style wire backed Titaniums, and some Endurances, a few Royal Purples, and a few Fleetguard Stratapores. First Brands has been cannibalizing & decontenting Frams since the day they bought them (& laid off Motorking/Jay a Buckley)!
 
I understand Donaldson's is a good oil filter, I wouldn't mind running one of them..
Im running one right now which looking to cut open soon. If you can find crossref to your vehicle and it has Synteq, youre pretty much in good hands. 15 to 17 micron full flow rating makes them the best in the market, unfortunately their top of the line stuff isnt for the light duty market.

I just happen to find one for my vehicle out curiosity when reading old threads about Donaldson posted by @OVERKILL
 
Yeah I found one light duty I guess P577066 about $20 bucks. Now isn't Purolator and Fram also full flow or no?
 
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One thing about BOSS that I dont like is that holes in base plate are very small in diameter compared to Endurance and most other filters.
Same filter fitment, the one with larger holes is Fram Endurance.

IMG_1689.jpeg
 
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I'm going to jump in here and help several of you understand why this debate is either meaningful, or meaningless, depending upon your POV.

There are many factors to discuss which affect wear control when it comes to lubricated systems. In this case, we're speaking of engines ...
- air filtration
- oil filtration
- OCI duration
- oil type (grade and add-pack)

You all are arguing about only one aspect (oil filters) and ignoring the effects the others have. You have to be much more specific when you discuss any of these things, as they all have jobs to play in a very meaningful manner.

If you're going to run long OCIs, then certainly the capacity of the oil filter matters greatly. But in short OCIs, it does not. Obviously because there just isn't enough particulate in the system to push the filter to a point of concern in being overloaded.

Further, if you're going to run short OCIs, then efficiency does not matter greatly. Here's why ...
There are three main contributors to wear when it comes to particulate; silica, soot and metals.

When it comes to silica, that is the air filter's job to reduce the loading of particulate in the engine. The air filter has been referred to often as the most important wear control filter; a few studies (IIRC done by Donaldson, and perhaps Cummins?) show that clean air is very paramount to a low wear rate. Poor air filtration will accelerate engine wear greatly, no matter how well you filter the oil. That's because the air goes into the combustion chamber before it ever reaches the oil system; it does its damage early.

Another concern to wear related to ICE engines burning the fuel is soot; a carbon based particle of small size as a result of incomplete hydrocarbon combustion. How small? Well, generally soot starts out sub-micronic in size. Several SAE studies have shown that soot starts out in the single digits of a nm (nanometer). A nm is 100x smaller than a micron (micrometer). So let us say that soot starts out at approximately 4nm. It would have to "grow" (amalgamate) about 100x larger just to become 4um. Most folks understand that stuff smaller than 5um is difficult for any FF filter to catch; and certainly won't be caught with any great efficiency no matter how well rated the filter is. Only BP filters can hope to be reasonably efficient at that level. Further, because stuff smaller than 5um is mostly harness (too small to do much damage in the engine), the stuff that's this small just isn't of great concern. What controls soot at these nm and small um levels? The DI part of the oil add pack! Good amalgamation inhibitors reduce the growth rate of the soot size. So if your OCIs are not overly long, the soot never gets physically large enough to be in a range that filtration efficiency is in play here. This is a fact which many BITOGers don't take into account. Soot is controlled by two factors relating to the oil; one is the add-pack and one is the duration of use which affects the quantity of particulate present as a percentage of the sump.

As for the metals, only the hard metals (Cr, Fe, for example) can generally harm the engine. The soft metals (Pb, Cu) won't. And there's nothing that any air or oil filter can do to change the abrasive nature of hard metals. Oil filters can remove them from the stream (if of sufficient size), but oil filters cannot alter the actual nature of the hardness scale, one metal relative to another.

So, you have to take all things into context and discuss these as them being in concert, not in a vacuum.

It is not wrong to claim that a higher efficiency filter will trap more particulate; that's a decent generalization. But what is inappropriate to claim is that the oil filter will substantially reduce wear all the time; that is patently wrong. The oil filter can only trap what is present as a ratio of the overall sump, and only when the particulate is of the size range that the filter is effective in.



Do not confuse oil filter efficiency with effectiveness.
- if the air filter is doing a good job of reducing silica ingestion
- if the OCI is short enough that large quantities of soot are not present
- if the add-pack is sufficient that it continues to hold soot at a small enough size
- then the oil filter has very little work to do, and it's efficiency isn't going to affect wear rates in a tangible manner
Conversely, poor air filtration combined with long OCIs and poor quality oil will leave a heaping load of problems for the oil filter to contend with, and here the conversation would certainly lend itself to high efficiency and high capacity being paramount in an oil filter.


I would ask that many of you stop to realize that discussions about wear control in an engine is a multi-faceted conversation, and to not get your panties all wadded up over arguments which focus on one aspect while ignoring other very important contributors to the topic of wear control.
 
Endurance all day for efficiency. Most of the BOSS line is 99% @>46um whereas the endurance is 99% @ 20um. the 10575 size was tested by andrew at ascent filtration under the royal purple name. for construction the BOSS is hard to beat. not saying the endurance isn’t a well constructed filter but for a fair comparison.

View attachment 222636
id be happy with a synblend or full synthetic media. I have a strong belief that any top rated oil filter is good and stay with quality air filters to keep junk out of the engine to begin with
 
I'm going to jump in here and help several of you understand why this debate is either meaningful, or meaningless, depending upon your POV.

There are many factors to discuss which affect wear control when it comes to lubricated systems. In this case, we're speaking of engines ...
- air filtration
- oil filtration
- OCI duration
- oil type (grade and add-pack)

You all are arguing about only one aspect (oil filters) and ignoring the effects the others have. You have to be much more specific when you discuss any of these things, as they all have jobs to play in a very meaningful manner.

If you're going to run long OCIs, then certainly the capacity of the oil filter matters greatly. But in short OCIs, it does not. Obviously because there just isn't enough particulate in the system to push the filter to a point of concern in being overloaded.

Further, if you're going to run short OCIs, then efficiency does not matter greatly. Here's why ...
There are three main contributors to wear when it comes to particulate; silica, soot and metals.

When it comes to silica, that is the air filter's job to reduce the loading of particulate in the engine. The air filter has been referred to often as the most important wear control filter; a few studies (IIRC done by Donaldson, and perhaps Cummins?) show that clean air is very paramount to a low wear rate. Poor air filtration will accelerate engine wear greatly, no matter how well you filter the oil. That's because the air goes into the combustion chamber before it ever reaches the oil system; it does its damage early.

Another concern to wear related to ICE engines burning the fuel is soot; a carbon based particle of small size as a result of incomplete hydrocarbon combustion. How small? Well, generally soot starts out sub-micronic in size. Several SAE studies have shown that soot starts out in the single digits of a nm (nanometer). A nm is 100x smaller than a micron (micrometer). So let us say that soot starts out at approximately 4nm. It would have to "grow" (amalgamate) about 100x larger just to become 4um. Most folks understand that stuff smaller than 5um is difficult for any FF filter to catch; and certainly won't be caught with any great efficiency no matter how well rated the filter is. Only BP filters can hope to be reasonably efficient at that level. Further, because stuff smaller than 5um is mostly harness (too small to do much damage in the engine), the stuff that's this small just isn't of great concern. What controls soot at these nm and small um levels? The DI part of the oil add pack! Good amalgamation inhibitors reduce the growth rate of the soot size. So if your OCIs are not overly long, the soot never gets physically large enough to be in a range that filtration efficiency is in play here. This is a fact which many BITOGers don't take into account. Soot is controlled by two factors relating to the oil; one is the add-pack and one is the duration of use which affects the quantity of particulate present as a percentage of the sump.

As for the metals, only the hard metals (Cr, Fe, for example) can generally harm the engine. The soft metals (Pb, Cu) won't. And there's nothing that any air or oil filter can do to change the abrasive nature of hard metals. Oil filters can remove them from the stream (if of sufficient size), but oil filters cannot alter the actual nature of the hardness scale, one metal relative to another.

So, you have to take all things into context and discuss these as them being in concert, not in a vacuum.

It is not wrong to claim that a higher efficiency filter will trap more particulate; that's a decent generalization. But what is inappropriate to claim is that the oil filter will substantially reduce wear all the time; that is patently wrong. The oil filter can only trap what is present as a ratio of the overall sump, and only when the particulate is of the size range that the filter is effective in.



Do not confuse oil filter efficiency with effectiveness.
- if the air filter is doing a good job of reducing silica ingestion
- if the OCI is short enough that large quantities of soot are not present
- if the add-pack is sufficient that it continues to hold soot at a small enough size
- then the oil filter has very little work to do, and it's efficiency isn't going to affect wear rates in a tangible manner
Conversely, poor air filtration combined with long OCIs and poor quality oil will leave a heaping load of problems for the oil filter to contend with, and here the conversation would certainly lend itself to high efficiency and high capacity being paramount in an oil filter.


I would ask that many of you stop to realize that discussions about wear control in an engine is a multi-faceted conversation, and to not get your panties all wadded up over arguments which focus on one aspect while ignoring other very important contributors to the topic of wear control.

Thank you for this, very helpful.

Can anyone comment on the pictures of the two filters above, the one has much more inlet flow vs the other. Some filters look like the amount of holes and size of them are so small that they would have less combined flow than the return/center hole. Is there anything to watch for this when selecting filters? Do all filters make sure that the inlet flow is never less than the return flow etc etc?
 
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