Fram Endurance Flashlight Test in canister

[JohnnyJohnson]

At $4 more than other Frams that have the same efficiency rating @ 20 Microns I'm surprised it took this long.

 

[Fair enough]

The particulate in oil can be assumed well mixed and evenly distributed. If it wasn't, then UOA particle count testing wouldn't be very good would it. Engines are continually producing debris that gets in the oil ... if they weren't there wouldn't really be a need for an oil filter. Even if an oil filter doesn't have any dirty oil leakage, the filter media itself can only achieve a level of oil cleanliness. Adding a leak obviously will cause some debris that would normally be caught by the media to get by and go into the engine unfiltered. And if the filter is bad at retaining already captured debris and sloughs off with increased debris loading dP and dP spikes from flow surges, then that sloughed off debris will not all be caught as it comes back around like it should if there is a pretty big leak past the media.


You have data showing someone only using a bypass filter without a full flow filter? Old cars use to only have some kind of bypass filter, but for some reason the auto industry decided that wasn't quite enough. The bypass filter is really only meant to take out the smallest stuff that a full flow filter can't. A bypass filter would have to be pretty huge and have a relatively low dP vs flow to work as a full flow filter. That's not their purpose. And if an efficient bypass filter had an internal leak, its efficiency would be impacted too.

https://blog.amsoil.com/bypass/?_gl...7.1917949917.1743565741-1235519763.1743565741

Bypass filters are used with or without a full flow filter. Historically the whole toilet paper bypass idea was based almost entirely on the bypass filter being the only filter. They sold adapters that replaced the full flow, and also sandwich adapters to use a full flow. Find them for sale on ebay still.
The leaky spring is a bypass of a full flow filter, filtration will never be better than the installed oil filter. Bypass is a principle. I am not writing anymore, don’t have the spare time get in arguments like this. Already oil filters is a big time user. Eventually one has to decide and move on. It’s like an addiction. Time for group. “ My name is Bob, and I am an oil filter addict.” It’s ok if one has the time, doesn’t harm anything.

 

[ZeeOSix]

https://blog.amsoil.com/bypass

Bypass filters are used with or without a full flow filter.

Not according to the Amsoil article you linked. Like said before, they were used by themselves decades ago before the full-flow spin-on filter became popular. The bypass demonstration video isn't quite in the context of how it would work on an engine, especially if there was no full-flow filter in conjunction with the bypass filter. The demonstration only shows it can catch the small particles that the less efficient full-flow filter can't. The text of the article clearly says both need to be used for best results.

If you think using just a bypass filter that's only flowing 5-10% of the engine oil flow with no full-flow filter being used will keep the oil cleaner in an engine that's constantly generating debris, then go for it. And find some actual controlled test data to show that's the case. If that was the case, cars would all have only a bypass filter on them like decades ago, but with high capacity spin-on 2u bypass filters - obviously that's not the case these days. If the engine was a very low debris generator it might keep oil clean enough, but nobody knows what each engine is generation because it depends on many factors.

Historically the whole toilet paper bypass idea was based almost entirely on the bypass filter being the only filter. They sold adapters that replaced the full flow, and also sandwich adapters to use a full flow. Find them for sale on ebay still.

Maybe you should go that route so you don't have a box full of filters and won't have to spend so much time here keeping up with oil filters.

The leaky spring is a bypass of a full flow filter, filtration will never be better than the installed oil filter. Bypass is a principle.

Not sure what you're after here. In this case, the unfiltered oil is the bypassing oil. Yes, a full-flow filter with an internal leak isn't going to be as efficient compared to it not leaking. That was the main purpose of the internal leak model in post 1152 to show graphically how various leakage percentage effects the particle beta ratio (efficiency). If anyone thinks it doesn't matter that's cool ... it's their machine, not mine.

It's better to have a leaky high efficiency filter vs a low efficiency filter that doesn't leak. A filter that's 99% @ 20u would have to leak ~38% to become what the Boss showed in Ascent's ISO testing, which was 62% @ 20u. The particle beta ratio model basically says if a filter is 99% @ 20u, the percentage of internal leakage is subtracted from the no leakage efficiency percentage. So if there was only 5% leakage, then it would effectively be 94% @ 20u ... basically like a non-leaking Fram PH.

I am not writing anymore, don’t have the spare time get in arguments like this. Already oil filters is a big time user. Eventually one has to decide and move on. It’s like an addiction. Time for group. “ My name is Bob, and I am an oil filter addict.” It’s ok if one has the time, doesn’t harm anything.

I thought you said a while ago that you where done "researching" and talking about oil filters. What was that about an addiction?, lol.