Fram Endurance Flashlight Test in canister

[KevinMalone]

So I opened up a used Fram PH7317 with production code A22171 (Aug 5 2022?) out of curiosity. The stamped leaf spring has no ripples and is flat where it seals against the fiber end cap. However, it was still not a perfect seal as there is visible light in some spots. Even if I applied pressure against the spring, it didn't seal completely. I did not remove or move the leaf spring and left it how it was oriented from the factory for the flashlight test:

I have to admit I'm quite surprised by the Extra Guard. I was expecting uneven pleat spacing and worse, but everything looked great.

 

[Ronn]

So I opened up a used Fram PH7317 with production code A22171 (Aug 5 2022?) out of curiosity. The stamped leaf spring has no ripples and is flat where it seals against the fiber end cap. However, it was still not a perfect seal as there is visible light in some spots. Even if I applied pressure against the spring, it didn't seal completely. I did not remove or move the leaf spring and left it how it was oriented from the factory for the flashlight test:


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Just as expected. Thanks for doing this.
Nothing Burger

 

[ZeeOSix]

Just as expected. Thanks for doing this.
Nothing Burger

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Nothing but another leak path, lol.

 

[ZeeOSix]

So I opened up a used Fram PH7317 with production code A22171 (Aug 5 2022?) out of curiosity. The stamped leaf spring has no ripples and is flat where it seals against the fiber end cap. However, it was still not a perfect seal as there is visible light in some spots. Even if I applied pressure against the spring, it didn't seal completely. I did not remove or move the leaf spring and left it how it was oriented from the factory for the flashlight test:

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You can see the leaf spring impression on the end cap is not fully seated on this one. The leaf spring in that area is being hung up and not sitting fully down on the slightly protruding end of the center tube. Bend that area of the center tube a bit towards the media and see how it seats and seals.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Here's a PH7317 where the end of the center tube is not protruding inward, and the leaf spring seal impression is 100% around the center tube. This is how they should be built.

 

[ltslimjim]

So I opened up a used Fram PH7317 with production code A22171 (Aug 5 2022?) out of curiosity. The stamped leaf spring has no ripples and is flat where it seals against the fiber end cap. However, it was still not a perfect seal as there is visible light in some spots. Even if I applied pressure against the spring, it didn't seal completely. I did not remove or move the leaf spring and left it how it was oriented from the factory for the flashlight test:


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I have to admit I'm quite surprised by the Extra Guard. I was expecting uneven pleat spacing and worse, but everything looked great.

Is that a ridge on 4 separate corners of the sealing surface?

 

[Glenda W.]

So I opened up a used Fram PH7317 with production code A22171 (Aug 5 2022?) out of curiosity. The stamped leaf spring has no ripples and is flat where it seals against the fiber end cap. However, it was still not a perfect seal as there is visible light in some spots. Even if I applied pressure against the spring, it didn't seal completely. I did not remove or move the leaf spring and left it how it was oriented from the factory for the flashlight test:


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I have to admit I'm quite surprised by the Extra Guard. I was expecting uneven pleat spacing and worse, but everything looked great.

Thanks for the c&p. To me it looks like the fiber end cap is distorted.

 

[Glenda W.]

This is a nothing

 

[dnewton3]

Testing this Fram filter in an "opened up" state is NOT the same as judging the "as built" state.

The force of the spring seated against the bottom of the can will push the leaf assembly firmly into the fiber end cap. The "seal" needs only to exist in a very small area. It would be wrong to assume that the seal is needed fully around the flat circumference interface; it can exist around the radiused intersection of the end cap and leaf where it protrudes into the cap.

 

[Glenda W.]

Testing this Fram filter in an "opened up" state is NOT the same as judging the "as built" state.

The force of the spring seated against the bottom of the can will push the leaf assembly firmly into the fiber end cap. The "seal" needs only to exist in a very small area. It would be wrong to assume that the seal is needed fully around the flat circumference interface; it can exist around the radiused intersection of the end cap and leaf where it protrudes into the cap.

Seems this would be an unexpected advantage to fiber end caps!! Didn’t make a difference on the Endurance.

 

[4WD]

Testing this Fram filter in an "opened up" state is NOT the same as judging the "as built" state.

The force of the spring seated against the bottom of the can will push the leaf assembly firmly into the fiber end cap. The "seal" needs only to exist in a very small area. It would be wrong to assume that the seal is needed fully around the flat circumference interface; it can exist around the radiused intersection of the end cap and leaf where it protrudes into the cap.

On the pair of XG’s I bought together - the one with the soft seal made contact with the radius …

 

[4WD]

So just why were some made like my picture below? We might wonder if it’s small fries - but ain’t a nothing

 

[4WD]

Seems this would be an unexpected advantage to fiber end caps!! Didn’t make a difference on the Endurance.

Yeah, I have never seen these “leaf springs” show stored energy like cutting an old Wix with a coil spring … The PF63 I just cut had no separation force just like Fram’s don’t …

 

[Sayjac]

Thanks for the c&p. To me it looks like the fiber end cap is distorted.

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Yes, been seen here before. When the endcap deflection/distortion reaches some point, there's no saving it from oil bypass with the stamped spring pressure inside the can. May or may not be the case in the pic. But definitely the case in the linked below TG3614 anecdote. Fwiw, I've seen others but this one most comes to mind.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/fram-tough-guard-3614-cut-open-internal-damage.270870/

 

[Glenda W.]

Yes, been seen here before. When the endcap deflection/distortion reaches some point, there's no saving it from oil bypass with the stamped spring pressure inside the can. May of may not be the case in the pic. But definitely the case in the linked below TG3614 anecdote. Fwiw, I've seen others but this one most comes to mind.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/fram-tough-guard-3614-cut-open-internal-damage.270870/

Oh wow…ugly. Even appears a wavy pleat was able to pull the fiber end cap down.

 

[dnewton3]

Oh wow…ugly. Even appears a wavy pleat was able to pull the fiber end cap down.

Again ....
Don't judge the filter's seal in the dissected state; that's not a fair assessment of its operational condition. We cannot see inside the "as built" can, but we know that the leaf spring's job is to force the spring/BP assembly into the end cap. Does anyone here have the spec of the "as built" can? Do we know how much force is applied? Do we know the dimensional tolerance stack-up? I suspect no one here has these answers, but many of you are willing to condemn a product by judging it AFTER it's been altered (torn apart). That's not applicable to the "as built - in operation" state.

There are things we can deduce from taking a filter apart, but the seal of the leaf spring to the end cap ain't one of them. That would have to be judged in the "as built" state.

(sigh ......)

 

[Sayjac]

Putting this thread back on the topic FE7317, it's clear that the vast majority here now agree light seen in seal area is a clear indication of oil bypass areas in the FE. After multiple trials same application that's how I see it too. If I had FE7317 in my stash, likely still use them till gone. As for purchasing more, no. At least, not until I see Champ Labs obvious seal area defect fixed.

 

[Ronn]

Again ....
Don't judge the filter's seal in the dissected state; that's not a fair assessment of its operational condition. We cannot see inside the "as built" can, but we know that the leaf spring's job is to force the spring/BP assembly into the end cap. Does anyone here have the spec of the "as built" can? Do we know how much force is applied? Do we know the dimensional tolerance stack-up? I suspect no one here has these answers, but many of you are willing to condemn a product by judging it AFTER it's been altered (torn apart). That's not applicable to the "as built - in operation" state.

There are things we can deduce from taking a filter apart, but the seal of the leaf spring to the end cap ain't one of them. That would have to be judged in the "as built" state.

(sigh ......)

Thrtes

Again ....
Don't judge the filter's seal in the dissected state; that's not a fair assessment of its operational condition. We cannot see inside the "as built" can, but we know that the leaf spring's job is to force the spring/BP assembly

See initial post on this thread lol

 

[Fair enough]

Thanks for the c&p. To me it looks like the fiber end cap is distorted.

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The spring hits the center tube possibly. Toyota on the bypass end also the center tube comes to the level of the seal. If it is a little long, trouble to seal.
Maybe these are glued though, Toyota the center tube is not.

 

[kschachn]

The spring hits the center tube possibly. Toyota on the bypass end also the center tube comes to the level of the seal. If it is a little long, trouble to seal.

Yes that would not be a good time.