Formulating the ultimate bike chain lube.

Originally Posted By: whizbyu
Originally Posted By: Trotter
You need to get yourself a girlfriend...
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http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp50-2000.pdf

Yea, I'm familiar with that, it might explain why even 'no lube at all' works with chains.
It was not replicated by Friction Facts, though - they measured extra 10 watts on a completely stripped chain.
Still, it is not as bad as it sounds, lol.
 
Originally Posted By: BalorNG
Eh, everyone simply provides what SEEMS to work for him.
But what about total mileage per 1% chain stretch?

How can you know that it 'works' if you I've never done an experiment by, say, running the chain with no lube at all and comparing mileage? Maybe it actually kills your chain 3 times as fast?

Sure it is noisy, but chain 'lubricated' with diamond grinding compound would be silent too.

*sigh*


I did a lot of reading on this a few years ago and now use the hot paraffin-wax bath method. I use about 75-80% paraffin and 25-20% beeswax. The beeswax is softer and provides the flexibility and cling to keep the wax on the chain. I use a crock pot for heating the wax.

I go 500 miles and then take the chain off and put in back in the hot wax bath soak again. I have about 3,400 miles on my current chain and it seems to be running fine. (I haven't checked for stretch lately but will check on that tomorrow)
 
Similar power, weight, mileage/year. Instead of fithing with problem I takle the root cause.
Invested in rohloff speedhub R14. Hessling delgado chain case and concentrate on cycling.
If you hate chain cases - go with Gates CDC carbon belt

Yes for my race bike chain I use the same as friction facts. - paraffin + PTFE + MOS2 - PTFE and MoS2 are cheap at ebay
 
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Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Have you tried Boeshield T9? It goes on wet, then dries, leaving behind a thin, waxy film. I've used it for years and seems to work well for me.

I use the non-aerosol bottle and after cleaning the chain, apply one drop to each side, of each link, then hang the chain up to dry, usually overnight. While tedious, it minimizes waste and assures the product goes into and inside the critical joint.

Don't have any objective tests for you though...sorry.



That is my absolute favorite method and favorite chain lube. I also prefer the drip bottle over the spray. If you DO like the spray bottle (careful, especially with disc brakes near by), Liquid Wrench Cable Lube is very good, also. I feel its a more effective lubricant than T9 but doesn't quite hold up as well.
 
Some links with pictures
1. Gates carbon drive
http://www.gatescarbondrive.com/
2.The gates CDC system
http://www.gatescarbondrive.com/Products/CDCSPROCKETS
3.rohloff the benchmark in IGH
http://www.rohloff.de/service/bikesuche/
4.Pinion.
http://pinion.eu/p1-18-getriebe/


And some bikes
1/Santos racer
http://www.santosbikes.com/fietsen/lite-serie/race-lite

2.Idworx - everything from MTB , city or world cyclist
http://www.idworx-bikes.de/nl/
3. if you like Titanium
http://www.vannicholas.com/76/Zion_Rohloff/bike.aspx
 
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I used DuMonde Tech Lite for many years. Excellent shift quality, but a bit gummy. It didn't matter how much I degreased it, it always got gummy. Two years ago I switched to Squirt. Shift quality is almost as good as DuMond Tech, but less gummy. That's important to me as I do get rear tire flats. I don't like getting all greased up, and then getting that mess all over the grip tape.
 
I found that he reupload video... In previous video he had exact formulation... Maybe that was disturbing for the competition
smile.gif


By my memory formulation was...


6-8% lamp oil (I guess that is his paraffin oil?)
12-14% paraffin wax
80% xylene
 
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In his edited video he adds waaay to much candles (3 vs 1 in non edited)... And that is probably the main reason for that conoction to solidifies...

P. S.: I am leaning more towards that his formulation was 6/14/80% mix
 
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Status update.....here is explanation from "oz cycle" why he have "reformulated" his formula in reuploaded video!

Quote:
ME: What was wrong with previous video? Was your formulation to disturbing for the competition?
smile.gif


oz cycle:
The original mix tended to be too thin...and applying more,the xylene disolved the wax already on the chain,still leaving the chain relatively dry. The new mix leaves more wax per volume of wax lube used plus doesnt splash everywhere when applying.
 
I use Maxima chain wax lube meant for motorcycle chains on my bicycle chains ... works great.
 
Originally Posted By: BalorNG


Otherwise the chain runs noisy yet clean and longevity is much better than that of traditional wet lubes. The fact that paraffin and WD works so well is a proof that it is better to run your chain completely unlubricated than wet-lubed - because even no lubrication is preferable to grinding paste.



It isn't a proof. It's an opinion.

Opinion is easy. Proof is a lot of work and may not be practical for an individual.

Years ago I used a hot candle wax bath with WD40 spray in between applications, on bicycles and motorcycles. It was OK, but later I read some engineering articles that said oil was the best chain lube despite its tendancy to attract dirt (this opinion is endorsed by Honda for motorcycles) and I made myself some on-bike chain lube gizmos for motorcycles, which applied oil.

So now I use a mix of watever leftover oils I have, currently mostly hydraulic oil because I have a lot that I have no other use for.

I think an important factor may be little-and-often application to maintain an oil film and wash some dirt off, but I have no proof.
 
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Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: BalorNG


Otherwise the chain runs noisy yet clean and longevity is much better than that of traditional wet lubes. The fact that paraffin and WD works so well is a proof that it is better to run your chain completely unlubricated than wet-lubed - because even no lubrication is preferable to grinding paste.



It isn't a proof. It's an opinion.

Opinion is easy. Proof is a lot of work and may not be practical for an individual.

Years ago I used a hot candle wax bath with WD40 spray in between applications, on bicycles and motorcycles. It was OK, but later I read some engineering articles that said oil was the best chain lube despite its tendancy to attract dirt (this opinion is endorsed by Honda for motorcycles) and I made myself some on-bike chain lube gizmos for motorcycles, which applied oil.

So now I use a mix of watever leftover oils I have, currently mostly hydraulic oil because I have a lot that I have no other use for.

I think an important factor may be little-and-often application to maintain an oil film and wash some dirt off, but I have no proof.


The proof seems to be in the research done by companies like Friction Facts. There are issues with wax lubes (wet weather being one, the ability to last more than a few hours being the other). You could claim the research is biased since they are selling the winning product but it's the only research that's been done so...
Motorcycles are different from bikes in their chain lube requirements, mostly due to o-ring chains that solve a lot of the lubrication issues faced by bicycle chains and partially due to other factors (a way higher power input that is enough to warm a chain up and soften bicycle style wax lubes, greater consumer acceptance to shorter chain life for those still using non-o-ring chains, etc.).

Additionally, wax-type lubes for motorcycles are different from the modern wax type chain lubes for bicycles. Bicycle waxes tend to harden to a dry or very slightly soft (almost like semi-dry putty) finish. Motorcycle wax lubes seem to mostly dry to a stickiness more akin to a heavy grease.

If I was going on a loooooong ride I'd be using an oil-based chain lube. For anything under 3-4 hours I'd use my favourite dry lube.

Horses for courses.
 
So I didn't really want to restart this topic, rather just contact BalorNG, But In the lack of his presence I will see if anyone here can answer my question.

First a disclaimer, I know little about lubircation.
Ill explain my infatuation with waxing for anyone curios or who disagrees with the practice......
I really hate the idea of lapping compound on my sprockets. I hate getting the nasty black oil on me. I like that I can clean the chain with gasoline 100% clean, then when i put it in my hot wax it goes all the way into the links and rollers, and doesn't make a huge mess. If you do that with oil or grease, there is NO WAY AROUND THE fact that you have an excess amount of oil on surfaces you don't need it. The most important reason I use it is Friction facts says its the lowest friction. All of my bikes have new bearings with plastic cages, low contact shields, and ceramic-speed grease (i suspect its SKF low friction grease) so I'm dorked out on low friction.... but not CERAMIC bearing $$$$ dorked out.

Now to the question I meant to ask BalorNG,
everyone uses paraffin wax,
friction facts recipe is paraffin wax, teflon poweder, and MOs2 in an ultrasonic cleaner
BalorNG mentioned a concoction of paraffin, lanolin and carnauba

I have been wondering for a while what are the lubricating properties of carnauba in contrast paraffin?


I have a few newer ideas as well, I watched a video the other day where someone diluted their wax with paraffin oil, this made the wax softer and less prone to flake. This sounds useful, but I wondered why not use gear oil to thin the wax, or perhaps castor oil? or perhaps some redline for its poe and clingyness, or just keeping it simple and dumping some castor oil from the pharmacy in there to thin it out?
I am leaning towards dumping some redline gear oil in there because of the EP additives especially if my brother still has some around.

I have some MICROLUBROL OMNIFLON XDL 100% Virgin PTFE Dry Lubricant Powder, 2-3 micron avg. particle size
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017C159RS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
but I don't think it stays suspended, I believe that it falls to the bottom with the rest of the trash that i don't get rid of during the gasoline agitation bath. This is where Friction Facts ultrasonic cleaning, then ultrasonic application of hot wax comes into play. This got me curious about "liquid teflon", investigation into this got me answers ranging from "liquid Teflon does not exist until you melt it at 599*F" which sounds hazardous, I am completely disinterested in that activity.........

I also found this stuff http://www.zardoznotwax.com/what-is-notwax/
Seems similar to an oxygen compatible grease I use at work called Krytox
I have contacted zardoz, to ask them about the possibility of obtaing some of their PURE stuff for my concoction but I'm not optimistic, Their small can will likely have no effect, and their large shop size, seems a little excessive. But Id like to see if i can get the stuff they are using.

while looking into carnuba wax, I came across Castor wax, made by hydrogenation with a nickle catalyst. I am wondering if the castor wax has the same polar properties that make castor oil good, If so, It may be worth substituting my paraffin wax for castor wax.

sincerely, and apologetically (for my rambling run on sentence structure)
Aaron Englert
[email protected]
 
Roch and Roll gold chain lube works great and doesn't attract dirt.Used it for the last 22k on my bike.
 
I like to think I've used every one on the market. I have 12 different ones on my shelf now including, ProLink a favorite of mine, Dumond Tech, Rock and Roll Gold. My favorite winter lube is BoShield T9, summer is Pedro's SynLube, a very thick lube similar to Chain-L
 
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