Forest Service dealing with large unauthorized gathering in Plumas National Forest

dnewton3 said:
I don't disagree that it's difficult to know how to take action.

But, for example, that doesn't stop the FS, NPS and BLM from banning ORVs because some of them do damage to trails, despite the fact that many do not.

The FS has a system for permitting the use of the lands they control; yet often these kinds of gatherings are in violation because they don't get the proper permits.
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This is a loosely organized gathering without any central planning. I'm not sure how it works other than maybe people throwing out locations and then just settling on one location each year.

They still need to deal with messes. The National Park Service has denied permits to bike races that would have gone through several parks, including (I recall) Colorado National Monument and Yosemite. But I heard they did allow once through Zion NP. I believe the big concern was that spectators would gather along the side of roads and trample on the vegatation.

The Forest Service, BLM, and the Bureau of Reclamation deal with reservoirs where there are just large gatherings on breaks and holidays. And each year around the 4th of July, there's a mess in Lake Tahoe. And the biggest issue is fireworks, where they're really on edge because of the fire danger in the area during summer.

www.fs.usda.gov

Lake Tahoe Basin Mgt Unit - News & Events

Lake Tahoe Basin Mgt Unit - News & Events
www.fs.usda.gov
The busiest day each summer in Tahoe is July 4th. Over a decade ago, the League to Save Lake Tahoe recognized that litter can be a byproduct of the holiday celebrations, alongside those treasured memories. In response, the League began hosting its annual “Keep Tahoe, Red, White & Blue” July 5th Beach Cleanup at sites around the Lake. Year after year, passionate volunteers pour in from inside and outside the Basin to take part. Many repeat volunteers even plan their annual vacations around helping clean up after the July 4thfestivities. The 11th annual event takes place this July 5th and all are welcome. You can register here. It’s just one of dozens of events, programs, and opportunities the League offers for the public.​
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www.fs.usda.gov

Lake Tahoe Basin Mgt Unit - News & Events

Lake Tahoe Basin Mgt Unit - News & Events
www.fs.usda.gov
SOUTH LAKE TAHOE, Calif., June 20, 2024 – The USDA Forest Service Lake Tahoe Basin Management Unit (LTBMU) is gearing up for our most popular holiday weekend, the Fourth of July! Tahoe is a cherished place, welcoming to all responsible recreationists of diverse backgrounds, and it is essential that Tahoe visitors and residents alike take care of this spectacular place to protect Tahoe’s environment and improve the Tahoe experience for all.​
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The LTBMU is aligned with and taking action to implement the Lake Tahoe Destination Stewardship Plan in collaboration with over 20 regional organizations. The award-winning plan, developed with the participation of over 3,000 residents, visitors, and businesses, establishes a shared vision for the region’s outdoor recreation and tourism, and encourages everyone to help take care of Tahoe’s cherished communities and environment. Visit the Destination Stewardship website to learn more and read the plan.​
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ctechbob said:
This x100. If you want to do your gathering, follow the rules that everyone else has to follow. If you don't then suffer the consequences of the law.

If you follow the rules, and there are issues afterwards, expect to be banned or prosecuted.

I don't care if you're a hippie, biker gang, MAGA, etc etc. Everyone plays by the same rules, no exceptions.
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Normally they allow dispersed day use activities - possibly with or without self-issued permits. But this is clearly not dispersed. Right now their only way to deal with it is a blanket order that visitors aren't allowed in the area, which makes it a lot easier to issue citations and to eject people since they're not allowed there at all.
 
y_p_w said:
This seems to be an annual thing they're dealing with, where the "Rainbow Family" organizes a group outing every year in a different piece of public land. Kind of like Burning Man, but without a permit.


www.fs.usda.gov

Region 5 - Resource Management

Region 5 - Resource Management
www.fs.usda.gov
An Unauthorized Noncommercial Group Use Incident (Rainbow Family Gathering) is occurring on the Plumas National Forest Mount Hough Ranger District approximately 5 miles north of Antelope Lake Recreation Area in Plumas County.​
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The USDA Forest Service has mobilized a national incident management team with experience managing these types of incidents. The team works closely with the local community, including law enforcement agencies, throughout the incident to protect the health and safety of everyone involved, and to lessen environmental impacts to the site by providing information and enforcing laws.​
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An incident of this size can have significant impacts on traffic, communities, local resources, residents, and visitors. Local businesses can expect to see large numbers of Rainbow Family participants visiting stores and buying food and supplies along routes to the incident location. Forest and local roads in the vicinity may become congested during the incident and road closures and/or traffic detours may occur.​

The supervisor has closed off the entire area through an order. I suppose that would given them the authority to eject anyone rather than have people just claim they're day hikers.


fseprd1183312.pdf



fseprd1183320.pdf
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The Rainbow Gathering has been happening for at least 30 years. I first heard about it in the early 90s when I was in college, now I'm in my early 50s.

Strategy has always been the same - on national forest or BLM land that is technically public. And nobody is ever in charge, that way, they cannot hold anyone accountable. Or at least that's the way I've heard it. Never actually gone myself.

My friend who used to go every year even through his late 30s/early 40s, now owns a lakehouse in Traverse City, Michigan to go to for the summer. I like to needle him about selling out.
 
dogememe said:
Yep. Laws need to be specific on what is OK and what isn't. Is there a legal limit of occupancy of that space? If so, enforce that, regardless of what event is going on. Make it clear that the problem is not the event, but the number of people exceeds the legal amount. If there is a permit that allows X amount more people, have that information available, and price it accordingly.

But other than that, a group of people in a public space, well, it is what it is. If they aren't breaking any laws, what is the big deal?
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I've heard of cases where it was just done on the fly using the inherent enforcement powers for agencies. Maybe declare an unsafe gathering with a requirement to disperse. They've actually done this in a different "nobody allowed at all" manner. But they do have the power do make such determinations, such as temporary no fire orders or temporary bans on alcohol. And I say that as someone who has (legally) consumed a fair amount of alcohol on national forest lands.
 
Kira said:
To dnewton3: Don't characterize an uncounted horde in a way that fits your prejudices. I bet a hefty percentage were wearing camo and waving the flag. What you have here is a bunch of slobs with too much time on their hands.
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Never heard of them before so I did a search on "Rainbow Family Gathering". This are just two of the many images I found - and they all show the same type of crowd. To use an old cliche from the '60s and '70s - a bunch of "burn outs".

Scott

Rainbow Family Gathering.jpg

RFG 2.jpeg
 
slo town said:
Never heard of them before so I did a search on "Rainbow Family Gathering". This are just two of the many images I found - and they all show the same type of crowd. To use an old cliche from the '60s and '70s - a bunch of "burn outs".

Scott
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As my mom would call it, "Isla Vista food co-op people that never grew up" FWIW she is 77 so was just before the hippie thing.
 
OTOH, who are these wannabe feds to tell me or anyone else that we can't gather on land held in common by the federal government?
OTOH, these folks do seem to leave behind mountains of trash that others need to spend time and money to clean up.
Without some sort of permit with someone's name on it, there is no responsible party, so the cleanup costs end up borne by some third party which had no part in the popup event.
 
fdcg27 said:
OTOH, who are these wannabe feds to tell me or anyone else that we can't gather on land held in common by the federal government?
OTOH, these folks do seem to leave behind mountains of trash that others need to spend time and money to clean up.
Without some sort of permit with someone's name on it, there is no responsible party, so the cleanup costs end up borne by some third party which had no part in the popup event.
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Tragedy of the Commons.
 
fdcg27 said:
OTOH, who are these wannabe feds to tell me or anyone else that we can't gather on land held in common by the federal government?
OTOH, these folks do seem to leave behind mountains of trash that others need to spend time and money to clean up.
Without some sort of permit with someone's name on it, there is no responsible party, so the cleanup costs end up borne by some third party which had no part in the popup event.
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The third party is us because it's the forest service usually stuck cleaning up and restoring the affected area. Based on overwhelming past evidence they should prohibit these gatherings. If you let a group on you land and they trashed it and left would you let them back?
 
AZjeff said:
The third party is us because it's the forest service usually stuck cleaning up and restoring the affected area. Based on overwhelming past evidence they should prohibit these gatherings. If you let a group on you land and they trashed it and left would you let them back?
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I get that there are a lot of people who feel that the people have a right to use public lands. However, the US Constitution gives specific power to regulate the use of federal property.

The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.​
 
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