I was at a Goodyear tire center and I have to take my company truck in for oil changes(I change all my own oil, and the more I go to these places, the more reasons I have too). My company truck is a 2004 F150 with a 4.6 V8. I am watching him change the oil and I see him putting the small Ford filter on( the lf400 type) I told the service manager that was the wrong filter it reqires the bigger fat filter for the v8, the 820s equvilent. He told me they superceded that bigger filter for the smaller one and the bigger filter is no longer available. Which i told him I wanted to see that memo, because I never heard that and I keep up on that(on here). So he got all huffy and told me maybe I need to change my own oil, which I wish I could. He came back a couple of minutes later and threw me a catalog, for what looked like a off-brand of Purolator filters. It stated in there, that the 2500 was the right filter for the 4.6 and 5.4(the little narrow filter and the 14651 would be discontinued and no longer avaialable. I apologized for my error and just ate it up, but I think this is just a way to cut costs for filter makers and the quick lubes, I seriously doubt they will discontinue the 820s and only make the smaller filter. Another reason, to change your own oil. Anyone else saw this?
Ford filter being discontinued for small filter
- Thread starter Panzerman
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I would have told that monkey to put on the 820 anyway!
Originally Posted By: kcfx4
ive heard another person say theres a newer fl820s thats shorter in height not smaller in dia, but ive yet to see it
Yup it even says on the box, new size. Its not a lot smaller but it is somewhat shorter. I have 2 of each in my stash...
ive heard another person say theres a newer fl820s thats shorter in height not smaller in dia, but ive yet to see it
Yup it even says on the box, new size. Its not a lot smaller but it is somewhat shorter. I have 2 of each in my stash...
While changing my oil filter for the first time on my new to me 2004 F150 with the 5.4, I ran into the same thing. The old filter was not an FL-820s sized filter. Instead, it cross referenced a FL500s filter, which uses the same mounting bolt, but is skinnier and longer. It was a Pennzoil filter, and their catalog has the same deal. The FL-820s type filter is discontinued in favor of this new filter (used on the Ecoboost in non-F150 apps and the new 5.0. Pain in the but to get off (darn quickie oil change gorilla) and annoying since I didn't have any small filter wrenches.
The FL-820s was shortened slightly last year sometime. There is some difference, but not a lot in the height, and it is the same width as always.
The FL-820s was shortened slightly last year sometime. There is some difference, but not a lot in the height, and it is the same width as always.
The FL-820S is not discontinued at all through Ford. Maybe through aftermarket manufacturers, but not Ford.
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
While changing my oil filter for the first time on my new to me 2004 F150 with the 5.4, I ran into the same thing. The old filter was not an FL-820s sized filter. Instead, it cross referenced a FL500s filter, which uses the same mounting bolt, but is skinnier and longer. It was a Pennzoil filter, and their catalog has the same deal. The FL-820s type filter is discontinued in favor of this new filter (used on the Ecoboost in non-F150 apps and the new 5.0. Pain in the but to get off (darn quickie oil change gorilla) and annoying since I didn't have any small filter wrenches.
The FL-820s was shortened slightly last year sometime. There is some difference, but not a lot in the height, and it is the same width as always.
Let me guess, a PZ-173, right?
While changing my oil filter for the first time on my new to me 2004 F150 with the 5.4, I ran into the same thing. The old filter was not an FL-820s sized filter. Instead, it cross referenced a FL500s filter, which uses the same mounting bolt, but is skinnier and longer. It was a Pennzoil filter, and their catalog has the same deal. The FL-820s type filter is discontinued in favor of this new filter (used on the Ecoboost in non-F150 apps and the new 5.0. Pain in the but to get off (darn quickie oil change gorilla) and annoying since I didn't have any small filter wrenches.
The FL-820s was shortened slightly last year sometime. There is some difference, but not a lot in the height, and it is the same width as always.
Let me guess, a PZ-173, right?
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Have used the new version on the GF's V-6 Mariner 3.0. It is easier to get on and off due to better clearance near the exhaust header. This is one hot and tight area in this application and the shorter length is appreciated. One case where bigger isn't better.
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
While changing my oil filter for the first time on my new to me 2004 F150 with the 5.4, I ran into the same thing. The old filter was not an FL-820s sized filter. Instead, it cross referenced a FL500s filter, which uses the same mounting bolt, but is skinnier and longer. It was a Pennzoil filter, and their catalog has the same deal. The FL-820s type filter is discontinued in favor of this new filter (used on the Ecoboost in non-F150 apps and the new 5.0. Pain in the but to get off (darn quickie oil change gorilla) and annoying since I didn't have any small filter wrenches.
The FL-820s was shortened slightly last year sometime. There is some difference, but not a lot in the height, and it is the same width as always.
I'm not sure I understand your cross-referencing info, but the proper MOTORCRAFT filter for your 2004 F-150 5.4 is still the FL-820S. It has not been discontinued and remains available. In the case of some Ford engines, e.g. the Fusion 3.0 and others, there was a spec change of filters from FL-820S to FL-500S in 2009. Issues with cross referencing is one reason that I use Motorcraft filters on my Ford vehicles instead of other brands. For my apps and OCIs, MC filters can't be beat IMO.
While changing my oil filter for the first time on my new to me 2004 F150 with the 5.4, I ran into the same thing. The old filter was not an FL-820s sized filter. Instead, it cross referenced a FL500s filter, which uses the same mounting bolt, but is skinnier and longer. It was a Pennzoil filter, and their catalog has the same deal. The FL-820s type filter is discontinued in favor of this new filter (used on the Ecoboost in non-F150 apps and the new 5.0. Pain in the but to get off (darn quickie oil change gorilla) and annoying since I didn't have any small filter wrenches.
The FL-820s was shortened slightly last year sometime. There is some difference, but not a lot in the height, and it is the same width as always.
I'm not sure I understand your cross-referencing info, but the proper MOTORCRAFT filter for your 2004 F-150 5.4 is still the FL-820S. It has not been discontinued and remains available. In the case of some Ford engines, e.g. the Fusion 3.0 and others, there was a spec change of filters from FL-820S to FL-500S in 2009. Issues with cross referencing is one reason that I use Motorcraft filters on my Ford vehicles instead of other brands. For my apps and OCIs, MC filters can't be beat IMO.
Originally Posted By: Hermann
Have used the new version on the GF's V-6 Mariner 3.0. It is easier to get on and off due to better clearance near the exhaust header. This is one hot and tight area in this application and the shorter length is appreciated. One case where bigger isn't better.
True! I used to hate changing oil when I had my Mariner. I used to let it cool about an hour prior to removing filter (or wear gloves + long sleeves).
Have used the new version on the GF's V-6 Mariner 3.0. It is easier to get on and off due to better clearance near the exhaust header. This is one hot and tight area in this application and the shorter length is appreciated. One case where bigger isn't better.
True! I used to hate changing oil when I had my Mariner. I used to let it cool about an hour prior to removing filter (or wear gloves + long sleeves).
Panzerman, I feel for you, brah.
I, too, am required to take my company van to a quick-lube (I won't name it , but the initials are JL). It's a GMC Safari with the 4.3L V6. When the "technician" told me I had the wrong filter on it (PF52-size), I told him politely that I wanted that filter on it. He got all aggro and yelled at the undercar guy to "cram the big filter on it". I just smiled and said "Thank you".
Loser.
I, too, am required to take my company van to a quick-lube (I won't name it , but the initials are JL). It's a GMC Safari with the 4.3L V6. When the "technician" told me I had the wrong filter on it (PF52-size), I told him politely that I wanted that filter on it. He got all aggro and yelled at the undercar guy to "cram the big filter on it". I just smiled and said "Thank you".
Loser.
That was the filter they were using the Group 7, appeared to be a Purolator spin-off. I like how they say in their ad, that their main concern is the customer, not that we are giving you less filter and so is the guy changing your oil reducing his inventory, but we are still charging the same price. We love you too.
I actually bought a case of those Chinese filters off Ebay. I cut one apart and it really impressed me. Motorcraft is my first choice, but for two dollar filters shipped, they are better than stock Purolators, Frams or those dreadful plastic cage Super techs.
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I actually bought a case of those Chinese filters off Ebay. I cut one apart and it really impressed me. Motorcraft is my first choice, but for two dollar filters shipped, they are better than stock Purolators, Frams or those dreadful plastic cage Super techs.
What are the Chinese filters you are referring to, i.e. brand name & number?
I actually bought a case of those Chinese filters off Ebay. I cut one apart and it really impressed me. Motorcraft is my first choice, but for two dollar filters shipped, they are better than stock Purolators, Frams or those dreadful plastic cage Super techs.
What are the Chinese filters you are referring to, i.e. brand name & number?
They are white in a blue box, I think they are called ROYAL V4651. They are a heavy duty filter. They are thick metal case, have a great drainback valve and the filter material looks Great. I diasected one just to check them out and it really impressed me. Built similar to a Purolator, but actually heavier duty with what appears to be better filter media.
Bought an 820-Fls at Wally's yesterday for $3.67.
Originally Posted By: Hallmark
I'm not sure I understand your cross-referencing info, but the proper MOTORCRAFT filter for your 2004 F-150 5.4 is still the FL-820S. It has not been discontinued and remains available. In the case of some Ford engines, e.g. the Fusion 3.0 and others, there was a spec change of filters from FL-820S to FL-500S in 2009. Issues with cross referencing is one reason that I use Motorcraft filters on my Ford vehicles instead of other brands. For my apps and OCIs, MC filters can't be beat IMO.
In the Pennzoil filter lineup, the equivalent to the FL-820s has been discontinued. For applications that required it, they now specify the the PZ-173, which is skinnier and longer, and cross references to the Motorcraft FL-500s filter. The FL-500s has the same oil filter boss (M22x1.5 I believe), and nearly identical gasket dimensions, just a different physical shape (long and skinny versus short and fat).
I agree that is part of why I prefer to use the Motorcraft filter - you know for sure it is the correct application and meets the correct specification.
I'm not sure I understand your cross-referencing info, but the proper MOTORCRAFT filter for your 2004 F-150 5.4 is still the FL-820S. It has not been discontinued and remains available. In the case of some Ford engines, e.g. the Fusion 3.0 and others, there was a spec change of filters from FL-820S to FL-500S in 2009. Issues with cross referencing is one reason that I use Motorcraft filters on my Ford vehicles instead of other brands. For my apps and OCIs, MC filters can't be beat IMO.
In the Pennzoil filter lineup, the equivalent to the FL-820s has been discontinued. For applications that required it, they now specify the the PZ-173, which is skinnier and longer, and cross references to the Motorcraft FL-500s filter. The FL-500s has the same oil filter boss (M22x1.5 I believe), and nearly identical gasket dimensions, just a different physical shape (long and skinny versus short and fat).
I agree that is part of why I prefer to use the Motorcraft filter - you know for sure it is the correct application and meets the correct specification.
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
I agree that is part of why I prefer to use the Motorcraft filter - you know for sure it is the correct application and meets the correct specification.
Do you know the by-pass pressure of the PZ-173 filter? My reason for asking is that the FL-500S is rated at 8 PSI vs the FL-820S 16 PSI. If the PZ-173 is now the recommended cross-ref for both Motorcraft applications, how does Pennzoil position the PZ-173 filter PSI between such wide MC variances?
My info (second hand) may not be correct, but I recall reading that the reason for Ford's change from the 820S to the 500S was a change in oil pump pressures in some engine applications.
I agree that is part of why I prefer to use the Motorcraft filter - you know for sure it is the correct application and meets the correct specification.
Do you know the by-pass pressure of the PZ-173 filter? My reason for asking is that the FL-500S is rated at 8 PSI vs the FL-820S 16 PSI. If the PZ-173 is now the recommended cross-ref for both Motorcraft applications, how does Pennzoil position the PZ-173 filter PSI between such wide MC variances?
My info (second hand) may not be correct, but I recall reading that the reason for Ford's change from the 820S to the 500S was a change in oil pump pressures in some engine applications.
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