Ford E4OD Tranny and Bank's Transcommand Module--Question

[1040 WreckerMan]

I really wasn't clear on the cam timing, RPM so I'll try to elaborate. What RPM the engine will make power at is dependent on many factors, cam timing is just one. The more advance in the cam timing, the sooner the power will come on, but the sooner it will be over. 3800 RPM isn't going to hurt that thing a bit. The 460 bottom ends are very stout. The two 460 in my boat which are automotive parts I swapped into the boat when the 351's gave up, turn 4500-6200 all day long on stock bottom ends. No, the old engines in the Lincoln's and such would not "stop" at 3500-4000 RPM, but that doesn't mean they continued to make power after that. Please don't take these numbers as absolute, they are just guesses. The 460 in my work truck had advanced cam timing, so it didn't make any more power if you turned it harder than about 3500-4000. You can also use the ignition timing and ignition advance to fine tune the power range. Running the cam 0* will really wake up that engine, it'll have great throttle response make more power and should net you more MPG. This will also not affect longevity in the least. The only way you will hurt it is if you get carried away with the ignition timing and advance and run it so far ahead that it pings. I would start with factory ignition timing and see how it does. Every engine responds to ignition timing a little different. Driving habits will also affect ignition timing, so that is something that will take a bit of trail and error. Stock is a good base line and you can work up or down (probably up)from there. This setup should pass emissions just fine with an injected engine, you can adjust the ignition timing to lean it out some to pass if it's borderline. Oh, you will be making more power in OD since the advanced cam timing will move the power band down. This will allow the engine to pull longer in OD before needing to down shift.

As long as your exhaust leak isn't large enough to allow massive amounts of "cold" air back into the head after shutdown, then no you don't have to fix it. The only concern with an exhaust leak at the manifold is ambient air getting up to an hot exhaust valve. If it's just a broken bolt and you can put up with the noise (if it's even leaking that bad) then you should be just fine running it that way. Hope that helps some.

 

[TallPaul]

Very helpful, thanks.
The timing gears are probably the best bet and some exhaust de-restriction.

Called Camping World and they want $1375 for a Gibbons exhaust (headers to tailpipe) and another $415 to install. Broken manifold bolts are $89 first one, and about $65 each one after that. So probably looking at 2K installed. I don't mind so much but might be hard to get my wife to go for it.

 

[1040 WreckerMan]

If you have some time you should be able to fix those bolts and install an exhaust system yourself. I've done a Banks kit on a 28' in my driveway. Getting the old exhaust out is a piece of cake if you have a sawzall. It was a bit of a chore getting the headers in and lined up laying on my back, but still only an afternoons work. I was really impressed with the price and quality of the Banks. I'm not sure how good the 460 headers are from Gibbson. If there are any truck performance places around you, they might be a good place to check. Most diesel hot rod shops will work on Motor homes, even if they are gas. Probably get a better price on the parts, labor is a wash most times. Anyway, have fun with whatever you chose.

 

[TallPaul]

Thanks. They are getting a quote on Banks and it will be higher. They said between Gibson and Banks you get what you pay for, so apparently the Banks is better. I don't have time to tackle the job and am reluctant to attempt a broken stud removal. I will check a few other shops.

I probably should at least get the stud fixed because it potentially could suck cold air. After driving about 20 miles on the freeway it suddenly gets a lot louder (the stud, cracked manifold, something totally unrelated, ???). Then it quiets down. On my shakedown cruise it would periodically get louder and then quiet down. Did it maybe a dozen times in 500 miles. At least if I fix the stud (or get the headers) hopefully that noise goes away, else I have ruled it out as exhaust.

 

[TallPaul]

Interesting, Banks headers have 5/8" thick flanges and no gasket, whereas Gibbons uses 3/8" thick flanges and a gasket. Seems the Banks is much better.

 

[another Todd]

Thanks for the clarification wreckerman.

Paul, I have the Banks headers on my 460 and they are great. I had them installed by a good sized muffler shop. Fair price on the headers and a good price on labor. Don't remember exact cost but I was happy. BTW, they did smear a little red silicone on the flanges, no gaskets though.

 

[TallPaul]

quote:

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Originally posted by 1040 WreckerMan:
I would highly recommend changing the cam timing. You can use factory Ford parts or just order a Cloyes adjustable set from someplace like Summit Racing (CLO-9-3122A). To change those gears you’ll have to pull the radiator, water pump, front cover and possibly the grill. It’s not a hard job, but it will take a bit of time. Well worth it I think, but it maybe more of a job than you want to do? I hope this helps some.

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Apparently this only works for carburated engines. According to John Geraghty's Performance column in the February 1994 Trailer Life magazine, in response to a question about a 1988 F250 with a 460 V8 wrote, "With the introduction of the EFI engine in 1988, Ford corrected the retarded camshaft position and upgraded to a steel, double-row timing chain assembly. Unfortunately, the cam profile was changed and exhaust-port size reduced, which limited the engine's flexibility."

 

[Big Jim]

That's what I thought I remembered. I know that correcting the cam timing with the early crank sprocket did wonders for the older engines though. The low RPM performance was greatly improved, fuel economy was improved about 10%, and the high RPM didn't seem to suffer due to the mild stock cam timing events. This was a wonderful modification.

I've always been disappointed with the fuel injected 460. Ford had the opportunity to make it into a wonderful engine and chose instead to detune it. I never pursued it, but I always wondered how well the injected engine would respond with the larger Cobra-Jet/Police Intercepter valves, porting, and a bit more cam. Those things worked wonders with the older 460.

 

[1040 WreckerMan]

I had a 91 with an injected 460. First thing I did was change the timing set. I used a set of Ford parts first (which may have been 370 instead of early 460 parts. I’m not so sure now. I’ll have to try and find the PN#’s I used and see what the application shows as), then later used a Cloyes set. With a few other supporting mods I put down 448 ft/lbs to the tires, which I thought was decent (considering Chevy’s truck 502hp/502ft/lb). With a weekends worth of head work I nudged those numbers up to You maybe right and the later 460’s did have different cam timing from Ford. I did explain why advancing the cam timing helps, and that still stands even if the later 460’s run 0* at the cam. Advance the cam 2-3* past 0* and you will achieve the same results. I put together a 472 BBC for a guy’s pickup, and I ended up running the cam on that advanced 4* and running about 12.5* of initial ignition timing, and it pulls hard from idle to about 3775, and it’s still making good power until around 4400 then starts falling off noticeably.

After changing the cam timing and porting my heads I talked to a local speed shop and had them burn me a new program to run in the ECM. I’d still have that truck, but I couldn’t resist the temptation to convert to all diesel.