Ford diesel cooling system additive ?
- Thread starter rkpatt
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Rk do you know for sure that you have an extended life coolant? or are you going by color? There are some nonextended life coolant that are also orange.
I'm not familiar with the Ford additive but extended life coolants in diesel engines usually use what's called extender so this might just be the standard SCA (supplemental coolant additive). My experience is with Cat's ELC coolant and for on highway trucks the recommended change interval is 600,000 miles with a addition of extender at 300,000. I think most recommend adding the extender at 1/2 life.
Just make sure you are using a diesel engine coolant and the proper additives. If not you can be in for a very unpleasant shock if you developer pitting.
Stinky
I'm not familiar with the Ford additive but extended life coolants in diesel engines usually use what's called extender so this might just be the standard SCA (supplemental coolant additive). My experience is with Cat's ELC coolant and for on highway trucks the recommended change interval is 600,000 miles with a addition of extender at 300,000. I think most recommend adding the extender at 1/2 life.
Just make sure you are using a diesel engine coolant and the proper additives. If not you can be in for a very unpleasant shock if you developer pitting.
Stinky
This is from memory, but Ford does not recommend any Long Life coolants in the diesel engines until 1999 and up PSD's. I have a 95 PSD and use the green coolant with low silicates, and add SCA's and I am sure the IDI is the same.
The additive is a good idea. It specifically cuts down of cavatation damage to the cylinder water jackets that can in time erode into the cylinders.
Ford thought it was important enough to send older diesel owners a letter recommending using it.
It should be used in addition to what ever coolant you use. I'll stay out of the debate about which coolant is best for your diesel. I will suggest that whatever coolant you do use that you do not believe the "extended life" claims.
Ford thought it was important enough to send older diesel owners a letter recommending using it.
It should be used in addition to what ever coolant you use. I'll stay out of the debate about which coolant is best for your diesel. I will suggest that whatever coolant you do use that you do not believe the "extended life" claims.
You can purchase the SCA at any International Dealer along with the test strips. The last that I purchased was a case of Motorcraft FW-16. When I run out, an International Dealer is local so I will go there.
Big Jim,
I agree, the debate on the coolant for the Ford diesel is not worth the hassle. I use the green because that is what it came with. I change it every 3 years, adding the SCA and test it. I test about every 6 months. My water pump lasted 8 years in my 95 PSD. My 01 PSD will be changed in January with the same routine.
Big Jim,
I agree, the debate on the coolant for the Ford diesel is not worth the hassle. I use the green because that is what it came with. I change it every 3 years, adding the SCA and test it. I test about every 6 months. My water pump lasted 8 years in my 95 PSD. My 01 PSD will be changed in January with the same routine.
If it was dexcool that was put in, then I believe that dexcool is not precharged, so it should not be used with diesels without a SCA. I'm not sure if dexcool-formulations are compatible with SCAs.
G 05 is the new ford and chrysler spec, it is precharged (says so right on the Zerex G 05 bottle), and can be used in heavy duty and diesel apps. Ford G 05 is dyed orange/yellow. Zerex G 05 is completely clear.
G 05 is the new ford and chrysler spec, it is precharged (says so right on the Zerex G 05 bottle), and can be used in heavy duty and diesel apps. Ford G 05 is dyed orange/yellow. Zerex G 05 is completely clear.
It ws not Dexcool , it was was that new Prestone Extended live stuff that costs about $10/gal at Advance auto . I am going to NAPA or the IH dealer and buy some test strips and DCA4 ( another name for the Ford SW16 additive in the soon .
"Icon 1 posted December 10, 2004 12:03 PM Profile for ChrisW Email ChrisW Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote If it was dexcool that was put in, then I believe that dexcool is not precharged, so it should not be used with diesels without a SCA. I'm not sure if dexcool-formulations are compatible with SCAs."
"Icon 1 posted December 10, 2004 12:03 PM Profile for ChrisW Email ChrisW Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote If it was dexcool that was put in, then I believe that dexcool is not precharged, so it should not be used with diesels without a SCA. I'm not sure if dexcool-formulations are compatible with SCAs."
Kestas
Staff member
I find this interesting. Back in 94 I was working on water jacket cavitation issues for Ford trucks.
If it was orange, and "Prestone", then it IS definitely GM licensed as DEX-COOL. Prestone's somewhat cheaper extended life antifreeze/coolant that's dyed conventional green (identical to the new ST extended life product, too) is actually the same formulation - but without the "DEX-COOL" imprimatur.
Now I am very confused and not knowing really what it is I guess I need to throughly fush the system
and install whatever n0n-dexcools colland and the DCA4 / SW16 anti-cavitation additive
quote:Originally posted by rkpatt:
It ws not Dexcool , it was was that new Prestone Extended live stuff that costs about $10/gal at Advance auto.
If it was orange, and "Prestone", then it IS definitely GM licensed as DEX-COOL. Prestone's somewhat cheaper extended life antifreeze/coolant that's dyed conventional green (identical to the new ST extended life product, too) is actually the same formulation - but without the "DEX-COOL" imprimatur.
and install whatever n0n-dexcools colland and the DCA4 / SW16 anti-cavitation additive
quote:Originally posted by rkpatt:
It ws not Dexcool , it was was that new Prestone Extended live stuff that costs about $10/gal at Advance auto.
If it was orange, and "Prestone", then it IS definitely GM licensed as DEX-COOL. Prestone's somewhat cheaper extended life antifreeze/coolant that's dyed conventional green (identical to the new ST extended life product, too) is actually the same formulation - but without the "DEX-COOL" imprimatur.
Welcome to the wonderful world of coolant confusion.
First off Dex-cool is not a diesel coolant although many people use it in diesel engines. The best ones for diesel engines contain nitrite. I know of 2 off hand - Caterpillar ELC and Shell Rotella ELC. Shell has a Dex-Cool that does not have nitrite. Texaco has several formulations of extended life for diesel engines, some with nitrite and some without.
I don't have a Prestone ELC in our coolant sample database but I'm betting if it says DexCool then it does not have the nitrite.
As for additives it is not recommended to add conventional SCA additives to extended life coolant. DCA4 is a Fleetguard additive for use in Fleetguard conventional coolants, which are what we call Conventional-Moly coolants. This is one of the major types of coolant chemistry and it contains nitrite and molybdate additives.
Now to tell the truth it won't hurt anything to use DCA4 or any other diesel SCA additive. If you decide to go this way then you will need to monitor you additives periodically but you won't have to add very much. The problem is you won't know how much to add because you don't know exactly what you are dealing with. If you want to send me a sample of your coolant I'll do a complementary analysis and tell you what you need to do. Send me a private message for the address.
The absolute best thing you can do is drain your system and flush with water (not cleaner). And then refill with one of the diesel ELC.
Fleetguard's is called ES Complete
Cat's is called Caterpillar ELC
Detroit Diesel is Power Cool Plus Prediluted 50/50 Extended Life
and Shell has Rotella ELC
Any one of these should last the life of the truck, Cat's recommended change interval is 600,000 miles for big trucks, or 12,000 hours for off road equipment.
I personally would not drain the coolant until you find out exactly what you are dealing with. No matter what you do, make sure you use a diesel coolant in your diesel engine.
Good luck
Stinky
Short of perptuating a myth, the Extended-Life type coolants are really looked down upon for the older Ford/Int. IDI's and DI's. Dieselstop.com will probably be your best source of info with 1st hand experiences on your model.
To sum up, I've read a handful of reports where guys having early 1990's and 1980's have gone to the ELC coolant, Rotella in particular, and have had no problems. But there are suggestions that the ELC coolant is susceptable to leaking past certain seals, because those older engines used different type of materials for seals which aren't that ELC friendly. The worst being the oil cooler o-rings, which risks contamination with engine oil requires the motor mount removed and engine jacked to service on certain years (of course my '89). Simple and believable, but I haven't seen or read any concrete 1st hand reports so I'm
about the issue. But I have read a few reports of oil cooler o-ring leaks, with varying coolants from what I can remember, so I can't draw any conclusions.
But you should find this funny.
http://www.rotella.com/ubbthreads/s...ber=366&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
I posted a while ago (check post date) on using Rotella ELC. That post went for months without answer until I responded with a wise crack, which they deleted! , something like guess I shouldn't have asked must be a touchy subject.
Shell's response was to stick with the owner's manual's recommendation- the green stuff.
I say don't feel like you're short changing yourself by not using the latest greatest ELC coolant. The green stuff has proven itself. Look for the ones that say ASTM-4985 on the bottle, those are the real low/no silicate antifreezes (not yellow bottle prestone) which are good for mixing SCA's with and can always be found at truck stops and IH dealers/service centers fairly priced.
The SCA's recommended for Ford/Int. 6.9/7.3L are the nitrite/moly type by fleetguard. The only two I know of that are legit are Motorcraft FW-16 and Fleetguard DCA-4. I think they are best ordered online, see shopdiesel.com for starters. That's where I get mine along with the good test strips that don't expire in 2 weeks after you get them. The IH dealer does that to me with the test strips, and then they get mad when I say I want them for free
Be forewarned, that any other DCA-4 type SCA is probably a knockoff. One is Fram, which I can get locally for $3 a bottle. However it has no molybdate additive... you get what you pay for I guess.
To sum up, I've read a handful of reports where guys having early 1990's and 1980's have gone to the ELC coolant, Rotella in particular, and have had no problems. But there are suggestions that the ELC coolant is susceptable to leaking past certain seals, because those older engines used different type of materials for seals which aren't that ELC friendly. The worst being the oil cooler o-rings, which risks contamination with engine oil requires the motor mount removed and engine jacked to service on certain years (of course my '89). Simple and believable, but I haven't seen or read any concrete 1st hand reports so I'm
But you should find this funny.
http://www.rotella.com/ubbthreads/s...ber=366&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
I posted a while ago (check post date) on using Rotella ELC. That post went for months without answer until I responded with a wise crack, which they deleted! , something like guess I shouldn't have asked must be a touchy subject.
Shell's response was to stick with the owner's manual's recommendation- the green stuff.
I say don't feel like you're short changing yourself by not using the latest greatest ELC coolant. The green stuff has proven itself. Look for the ones that say ASTM-4985 on the bottle, those are the real low/no silicate antifreezes (not yellow bottle prestone) which are good for mixing SCA's with and can always be found at truck stops and IH dealers/service centers fairly priced.
The SCA's recommended for Ford/Int. 6.9/7.3L are the nitrite/moly type by fleetguard. The only two I know of that are legit are Motorcraft FW-16 and Fleetguard DCA-4. I think they are best ordered online, see shopdiesel.com for starters. That's where I get mine along with the good test strips that don't expire in 2 weeks after you get them. The IH dealer does that to me with the test strips, and then they get mad when I say I want them for free
Be forewarned, that any other DCA-4 type SCA is probably a knockoff. One is Fram, which I can get locally for $3 a bottle. However it has no molybdate additive... you get what you pay for I guess.
this is a good site for coolant info
it also has 2 artcles going into good detail about SCA
http://www.imcool.com/articles/antifreeze-coolant/index.html
I'm going to write the editor and see if I can get a copy of
...DC’s and Ford’s concerns about OAT, read “Coolant Controversy” and Technical Correspondent Paul Weissler’s “OE Makers Put Brakes On ‘Orange’ Coolants” as it appeared in the May 1999 issue of Automotive Cooling Journal.
May 1999 issue of Automotive Cooling Journal.
it also has 2 artcles going into good detail about SCA
http://www.imcool.com/articles/antifreeze-coolant/index.html
I'm going to write the editor and see if I can get a copy of
...DC’s and Ford’s concerns about OAT, read “Coolant Controversy” and Technical Correspondent Paul Weissler’s “OE Makers Put Brakes On ‘Orange’ Coolants” as it appeared in the May 1999 issue of Automotive Cooling Journal.
May 1999 issue of Automotive Cooling Journal.
Thank you for the excellent link. There was a lot of great information there.
I took special note to the article "How Many Coolants Do You Really Need To Stock". It says that G05 can be used in place of or mixed with conventional green coolant.
I took special note to the article "How Many Coolants Do You Really Need To Stock". It says that G05 can be used in place of or mixed with conventional green coolant.
some info that I've come across, may be useful to those with the older diesels.
ASTM-4985 : specs < 250 ppm silicon,
can be inferred from numberous product sheets where the product meets D4985 and lists max silicon levels. Also here: http://www.corrosionvci.com/antifree1.htm
The purpose again, of looking for antifreeze meeting D4985 is because SCA's mixed with high silicate ( > 250ppm apparently ) antifreeze can cause the silicon to fall out and form green goo clogging the cooling system and radiator.
The new G05 stuff, according to valvoline product data sheet https://www.valvoline-technology.co...85256ae300727d2bc1256bbf006e84b9?OpenDocument
shows the new G05 stuff to have 252-308 ppm of silicon, 290ppm typical. However, it meets ASTM-D6210 which is the spec for pre-charged coolants for diesel engines (i.e. already have SCA in them) so you don't need to add SCA's to them.
Any antifreeze for that matter, meeting D6210, is precharged for liner cavitation and erosion protection and effectively has SCA already in it, so it does not require SCA to be added to it initially. but may require it be added as a maintenance dose later in the future.
Also in the valvoline site, it appears the traditional ZEREX anitfreeze meets ASTM-4985 so that would be a good choice to use if you want to continue with manual SCA usage.
With the new G05 stuff meeting D6210, which seems to be well available, fair priced and compatible with everything, I will probably go to that on my 1989 7.3L next coolant service.
ASTM-4985 : specs < 250 ppm silicon,
can be inferred from numberous product sheets where the product meets D4985 and lists max silicon levels. Also here: http://www.corrosionvci.com/antifree1.htm
The purpose again, of looking for antifreeze meeting D4985 is because SCA's mixed with high silicate ( > 250ppm apparently ) antifreeze can cause the silicon to fall out and form green goo clogging the cooling system and radiator.
The new G05 stuff, according to valvoline product data sheet https://www.valvoline-technology.co...85256ae300727d2bc1256bbf006e84b9?OpenDocument
shows the new G05 stuff to have 252-308 ppm of silicon, 290ppm typical. However, it meets ASTM-D6210 which is the spec for pre-charged coolants for diesel engines (i.e. already have SCA in them) so you don't need to add SCA's to them.
Any antifreeze for that matter, meeting D6210, is precharged for liner cavitation and erosion protection and effectively has SCA already in it, so it does not require SCA to be added to it initially. but may require it be added as a maintenance dose later in the future.
Also in the valvoline site, it appears the traditional ZEREX anitfreeze meets ASTM-4985 so that would be a good choice to use if you want to continue with manual SCA usage.
With the new G05 stuff meeting D6210, which seems to be well available, fair priced and compatible with everything, I will probably go to that on my 1989 7.3L next coolant service.
That's arguable,
Stinky
"Be forewarned, that any other DCA-4 type SCA is probably a knockoff. One is Fram, which I can get locally for $3 a bottle. However it has no molybdate additive... you get what you pay for I guess."
Yes. Beware of the additives that do not have moly in them. The moly acts in conjunction with the nitrite to prevent cavitation. Nitrite by itself does not work as well.
Yes. Beware of the additives that do not have moly in them. The moly acts in conjunction with the nitrite to prevent cavitation. Nitrite by itself does not work as well.
Not arguable at all actually. Nitrite does work well by itself, but it truly is not as effective if you don't have molybdate.quote:
Originally posted by Stinky Peterson:
That's arguable,Fleetguard DCA4 is certainly a good additive package but other coolant chemistries work well too. It isn't cut and dry. I would however use genuine Fleeguard if that is what Ford specifies.
Stinky
consumer notice: If you are buying an additive and it is a nitrite/molybdate formulation rather than a nitrite/ formulation, you will notice that the price is higher. I would recommend you not skimp and go with the cheaper product. The reason for the cost is not that company X is jacking up their prices. The cost of molybdate has gone up over 200% in the past year.
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