Ford 10R80 - TSB - Help

[BrendanC]

My 2005 4.8 4L60E even does this. It's annoying but whatever it takes to keep it from dying I guess.

you don’t want to tune it out on a 60e either. i have it removed from my 80E but its built from the bottom to the top. i still occasionally flip on tow haul when its bumper to bumper traffic to keep it from eating the 1-2 shift over and over again.

 

[350Rocket]

you don’t want to tune it out on a 60e either. i have it removed from my 80E but its built from the bottom to the top. i still occasionally flip on tow haul when its bumper to bumper traffic to keep it from eating the 1-2 shift over and over again.

Agreed and yeah I do that too, or sometimes put it in 2nd for driving over a bunch of speed bumps, to keep it from shifting needlessly.

 

[meep]

Right, you said that before and I trust your experience, but there’s got to be some other variables going on. Just wondering, when (if ever) was your trans software updated? I took mine in May ‘22 for the occasional clunky downshift and of course the dealer claimed they couldn’t duplicate my issue, and would not do the update, even though I would have paid for it.

(Side note, it’s also the dealer that drained my 800-mile old Ravenol DXG and did an oil change I didn’t ask for; when I complained the service manager said he would “comp” the oil change since it was their fault. I later realized that JA had simply charged it to the points on my RewardsPass account. Karma did her job though; about 4 months later that dealer lost their Ford franchise, and went out of business last month.)

Back to the story… I’ll have to call Dave and see if their 10R80s are on the latest software, or if any of them have had the CDF drum replaced at any point. I’m wondering if your negative issues can be isolated to a single variable: is it that the fluid is “too thick”; is it a limitation of a certain software version (or age of software); could it be tied to a given CDF drum revision; or is it because there’s already some wear or misalignment in your CDF sleeve that is “helped” by the thinner fluid flowing thru the partially-misaligned sleeve? And I’m speaking in general 10R80 terms, not just yours. Like, if someone had a brand new 10R80 with the newest drum revision and newest software, would the thicker fluid be able to be adapted to?

The biggest problem IMO is that Ford still hasn’t figured this out, it’s such an expensive issue to fix if not under warranty, and it’s not really easy to verify if any of these intermediate steps actually “fixes” the issue. We’re all kinda just waiting for a failure to occur.

All excellent points, truly.

was my trans updated? The dealer claims to have done a firmware update when I brought it in. The main difference is it let the engine rev higher, especially when cold. I didn’t particularly care for this update, as one of the sweet things I like about the 2.7 is it runs really well at low rpms. thankfully, it seemed to not affect warm operation much.

about the only detail I think I can add to your questions and my theory on the viscosity is this - three other times in three other vehicles I have experimented with alternate fluids, or corrected a previous owner’s mistake, or changed viscosity with a fix in a bottle to coax something a little longer. The change in shift timing - in how a thicker fluid affects the timing and feel, has been reasonably consistent throughout all of them, so I’m “ya know, reasonably comfortable” in putting this fourth experience in the same bucket, but by no means beyond correction. Oh, add one more, when I switched a high mike AW4 from dexron III to dexron VI. With 240k miles I was slightly afraid it would blow up. Rather, it drove even better and the shifting was quicker, less “felt,” and more seamless, a pleasant surprise (and it didn’t blow up).

reading all this, I may have saved my own bacon with the early fluid changes I did. Caught early, it’s at 65k and at the moment at least drives very well. I am reasonably convinced that a 1 part LV to 3 parts ULV is tolerable in the unit, and will get the fluids on hand to save for a nice day to do it. HOWEVER, note in my case the viscosity did NOT help the actual problem, not a single bit - the lubeguard additive was the key. All this viscosity thinking is more to protect the bushing surfaces.

i should add - this unit saw interstate towing during all of this time, but less so more recently. Certainly it made several out of state trips pulling a travel trailer before the problem appeared.

 

[Mtnbiker]

All excellent points, truly.

was my trans updated? The dealer claims to have done a firmware update when I brought it in. The main difference is it let the engine rev higher, especially when cold. I didn’t particularly care for this update, as one of the sweet things I like about the 2.7 is it runs really well at low rpms. thankfully, it seemed to not affect warm operation much.

about the only detail I think I can add to your questions and my theory on the viscosity is this - three other times in three other vehicles I have experimented with alternate fluids, or corrected a previous owner’s mistake, or changed viscosity with a fix in a bottle to coax something a little longer. The change in shift timing - in how a thicker fluid affects the timing and feel, has been reasonably consistent throughout all of them, so I’m “ya know, reasonably comfortable” in putting this fourth experience in the same bucket, but by no means beyond correction. Oh, add one more, when I switched a high mike AW4 from dexron III to dexron VI. With 240k miles I was slightly afraid it would blow up. Rather, it drove even better and the shifting was quicker, less “felt,” and more seamless, a pleasant surprise (and it didn’t blow up).

reading all this, I may have saved my own bacon with the early fluid changes I did. Caught early, it’s at 65k and at the moment at least drives very well. I am reasonably convinced that a 1 part LV to 3 parts ULV is tolerable in the unit, and will get the fluids on hand to save for a nice day to do it. HOWEVER, note in my case the viscosity did NOT help the actual problem, not a single bit - the lubeguard additive was the key. All this viscosity thinking is more to protect the bushing surfaces.

i should add - this unit saw interstate towing during all of this time, but less so more recently. Certainly it made several out of state trips pulling a travel trailer before the problem appeared.

Which lubeguard product?
I have a 2022 stock MACH 1 Mustang with 9k miles. It has been at a dealer this time for over 2 months and no loaner.
I do not know what the #@*k Ford and the dealer are doing. Are they incompetent? Crooks? Or both?
When I first took my car to dealerships, they told me it was electronic and that the system needed to learn how I drive etc. blah blah blah. But also when I noticed now is that when I took it to dealerships, they would not put the correct information and they would leave information off like the transmission totally.
I am seriously thinking about suing now and the false paperwork is a problem.
One dealer basically refused to diagnose my car! At Ted Britt Ford I Asked the mechanic to go on a ride with me to see if I could reproduce the problems with him in the car he refused. Then I asked him to put a data logger on it. He said they don’t do that.
The 10R80 seems to be steaming pile.
Here are a few education videos by SIU/Southern Illinois University and mechanics, etc.:
LIST OF LINKS:



















https://youtu.be/XpbTQb_dHDs?si=3CmWMLjaV7ajBirJ

1. CDF Drum. In earlier versions of the 10R80, a poorly designed bushing inside the CDF Drum slides out of position, allowing a Teflon seal to fail, resulting in pressure loss.
2. Outer Shell Problems. The 10R80’s outer shells are made of aluminum, which is softer than the steel used to make the transmission’s various clutches. Sometimes these clutches stick into the divots in the outer shell, causing weird shifts.
3. Valve Body. Valve bodies are what control the physical shifting in an automatic transmission. But if too much fine metallic contamination collects in the valve body, they behave out of spec. Which is why Dunsford always recommends replacing valve bodies anytime a 10R transmission is rebuilt.
4. (In the 10R80, planetary gear sets and the one-way clutch are vital for maintaining smooth gear shifts and appropriate gear ratios. Deficiencies in these components can lead to improper shifting or transmission failures. A faulty one-way clutch might cause skipping of gears or failure to hold power in specific gears.

Friction clutches also play a role in this system, and their wear can exacerbate these issues. Keeping an eye on gear shifting behavior can alert you to early signs of these problems. Repairing or replacing these components early can prevent costly overhauls. From: https://cartipsdaily.com/10r80-transmission-problems )











Another gentleman and his background:





https://www.f150forum.com/f118/unique-10r80-problem-solutions-experiences-options-566008/





Alright so just for some background, I worked as a tech at Ford for 3 years (during gen1 coyote years). Later became a pipe welder, traveled around for 8 years. Now I’m a welding instructor and have been teaching for the past 2 years. I have plenty of experience with mechanical work automotive and motorcycle wise, with fords work and issues, and have plenty of equipment/ tools to do anything. Currently have several track only vehicles 2 c6 vettas and a TT Gen1 coyote F150. I do a lot of engine builds, mainly LS and its variants, and all gen coyotes, various transmissions, and I also do custom tuning using HP Tuners. The current issue is with my daily F150. Itshould be noted that I am a very spirited driver and rpm shifter lol. What’s not talked about, not replaced even on mild build 10R80’s like Suncoast or Monster, and unbelievably not a TSB, is a very poorly engineered P3 planetary and sun gear. P1 and P2 both have thrust bearing separating the sun gear and planetary. P3 has NOTHING, literally metal on metal, only relying on fluid quality and pressure. So if we have valve body issues and pressure issues like sticking valves in a valve body it’s going to grind down.





Only one company at this time makes a solution and that’s WIT, here’s the link for that:





Cheap for what it is, also has a core charge.





https://www.wittrans.com/New_part-new.php?part=A164580AK

1. Torque Converter Shudder. A problem that was much more common in Ford’s earlier six-speed (6R80) transmissions. Dunsford says it’s much less common in the 10R80 but can be an occasional issue.
2. Gear Driven Pump Noise. Sometimes the pump in charge of moving the automatic transmission’s hydraulic fluid makes noise. Again, this is a less common issue.

B

https://youtu.be/XpbTQb_dHDs?si=BHaylgLhNWw_5Dcp

 

[meep]

@Mtnbiker - for me, all it took was a small dose, maybe 2 oz or 1/5 of the recommended dose of LUBEGUARD RED. I think I started at 1/10 dose and ran that way so much better for a while, and then it backslid some, and added more.

A couple of times I got advice from this board to reset the transmission adaptives - which was a really good thing to do after adding the LG - it can be done with Forscan.

I AM RUNNING a mix of ULV Valvoline ATF (oem spec) and a splash of Amsoil LV, which thickens it just a smidge, but it is quite sensitive to viscosity… so it’s probably 1/4 Amsoil and 3/4 ULV, with 2-3 oz total of Lubeguard. I’m at 77k miles and it’s been stable again for 14k or about a year since the last fluid change I did around 63k. I appreciate the slightly heavier fluid in there due to some evidence I saw in a video or two of what looked like bearing surface wear at one of the trouble points.

@ctechbob did an early dose of LG in his ranger, tows pretty heavy with it and has flawless results from his.

 

[ctechbob]

@ctechbob did an early dose of LG in his ranger, tows pretty heavy with it and has flawless results from his.

63,000 miles on the truck, almost 8000 miles towing somewhere around 6000#'s and it seems like I can't help but add weight to the thing since I just installed 600ah of batteries, 1200 watts of solar and 3000 watts of inverter.

I'm also tracking several other Ranger owners that are going from having constant problems to the point of not wanting to drive the truck, to turning it completely around.

My opinion is starting to become that the dorky valve body is at least contributing to the other problems by binding/flaring shifts and causing shocks through the driveline. Keeping the VB moving properly seems to at least help somewhat with extending those problems out.

Also, an aluminum pan to keep the case from flexing might have something to do with it as well. Don't have any proof of that though.

 

[Exhaustgases]

The biggest issue with most all the now, automatic transmissions is the over use of Aluminum, in the day valve bodies where cast iron and the valves were steel. Now valve bodies are cast aluminum (yeah been that for years, valves were steel though) and the valves are coated aluminum. Just like piston skirt coating that coating wears off the valve and the galling and or anything abrasive starts its work. Everything to do with that CDF drum is like wow! As well as the garbage can that holds it all. How could they not realize that the clutch plates would not wear into that aluminum and cause some of the plates to stick and not fully release?
Notice the 6R80 and how there is less aluminum used and is why it likely has less problems than the 10R80.

 

[Mtnbiker]

Ford finally put a new 10r80 transmission in my car under warranty!! After sitting on the dealer lot this time for three months, in hail, rain, etc. no loaner car either.
So I’m happy about the new transmission but now I’m trying to discern. Is there anything that I can do to make this transmission last longer than a few thousand miles?

 

[Mtnbiker]

The biggest issue with most all the now, automatic transmissions is the over use of Aluminum, in the day valve bodies where cast iron and the valves were steel. Now valve bodies are cast aluminum (yeah been that for years, valves were steel though) and the valves are coated aluminum. Just like piston skirt coating that coating wears off the valve and the galling and or anything abrasive starts its work. Everything to do with that CDF drum is like wow! As well as the garbage can that holds it all. How could they not realize that the clutch plates would not wear into that aluminum and cause some of the plates to stick and not fully release?
Notice the 6R80 and how there is less aluminum used and is why it likely has less problems than the 10R80.

I agree 100%

 

[Cuda70383]

Ford finally put a new 10r80 transmission in my car under warranty!! After sitting on the dealer lot this time for three months, in hail, rain, etc. no loaner car either.
So I’m happy about the new transmission but now I’m trying to discern. Is there anything that I can do to make this transmission last longer than a few thousand miles?

Mtnbiker- I noticed you mentioned Ted Britt Ford. I live in Chantilly, off the 50 Hwy and Pleasant Valley.

Who did you speak with to get your transmission changed out. I've had 8 plus visits, out of service for a total of 280 days since I purchased it new there in 2020. Advisor Se Yoon Young was great but he left. Service Manager Tom Linnehan seemed to sell me a good story but was let go.

Help me try to get my unit swapped.

Thanks!