Ford 10R60 - HPL ATF vs OEM ULV

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

Looking for a quick sanity check - have two, 2 year old Fords with the 10R60 transmission that specify Mercon ULV fluid. I’m replacing the plastic trans pans with PPE aluminum pans, changing the filter, and doing a fluid exchange at ~20k miles. Warranty is 5yrs/60k.

The local Ford dealer is charging $11/qt for Mercon ULV. It is $13.50/qt to get HPL Teal. Would HPL make sense or should I stick with the Mercon ULV? Additionally I’m in a cold climate and have read that HPL green “LV” cold climate is recommended for cold climate applications even when ULV is specified. One of the transmissions is already showing some occasional clunky, hard shifting from 1st to 3rd on the factory fill when cold.

Thanks for the advice. I did reach out to HPL but I think racing season is starting and they are busy.

 

[Furious]

Stick with OEM or licensed fluid and change it at decent intervals.

$11/qt plus you don't have to pay shipping.

 

[ctechbob]

Here's my opinion on the 10R's, being the owner of a 'pre-update' 10R80. Actually 2 opinions.

Rockauto has ULV much cheaper. Actually, many places have ULV much cheaper, it is worth shopping around.

The second opinion is. It is much more important to have clean fluid in these transmissions. The valve bodies seem to be overly sensitive to debris and wear, so regular changes are a must (IMO). Now, if you want to get the fluids from the dealer and not somewhere else (cheaper) and for such a small difference, I'd consider the HPL, but the last time I bought ULV I paid something like $6/qt, so with my change schedule and that difference in price, it would be double the cost for me to do a drain and fill.

A 3rd and unasked for opinion is that we're having pretty decent success with LG platinum over in the Ranger world, it seems to add just enough 'something' to keep the valve bodies functioning smoothly.

 

[ctechbob]

Also..... You're in AK and I don't know how much high-speed highway driving you do, but.

Be super mindful of fill level. These things are super sensitive to being even a little bit overfilled. Usually manifests on higher speed highway drives. Seems like the fluid heats up, comes into contact with something in the transmission, foams, and then goes into a sort of 'thermal runaway' where the temperature shoots to 250-260, it blows fluid out of the vent, and the first thing you notice is that the thing is shifting like it all of a sudden lost its clutch packs. (Air in the valve body)

 

[JavierH19]

HPL green cc can't be used only teal. I think the teal is worth using if you plan on keeping it for very long but doing regular spills with regular ulv is good enough. What's more important are the trans temps. My 10L80 only gets to 140-150 regular drives and 160 on long drives. I've never seen 170.

 

[redhat]

I know I’ve seen DEX ULV pretty cheap on Rock Auto. I’d assume use either as you would like.

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

Also..... You're in AK and I don't know how much high-speed highway driving you do, but.

Be super mindful of fill level. These things are super sensitive to being even a little bit overfilled. Usually manifests on higher speed highway drives. Seems like the fluid heats up, comes into contact with something in the transmission, foams, and then goes into a sort of 'thermal runaway' where the temperature shoots to 250-260, it blows fluid out of the vent, and the first thing you notice is that the thing is shifting like it all of a sudden lost its clutch packs. (Air in the valve body)

Thanks! On the one I already did the pan swap and fluid exchange with, I heated it up as much as I could, which was 200F, checked level, and took this picture. Have the forearm burns to prove it. I don’t do too many long highway trips but the trans temp rarely gets over 200F, usually that only happens on the occasional off-road trails. The one I haven’t changed yet is the one getting a bit clunky.

 

[JavierH19]

Thanks! On the one I already did the pan swap and fluid exchange with, I heated it up as much as I could, which was 200F, checked level, and took this picture. Have the forearm burns to prove it. I don’t do too many long highway trips but the trans temp rarely gets over 200F, usually that only happens on the occasional off-road trails.
View attachment 275303

Upgrading the cooler would be better than upgrading the fluid in the long run. I'd never want such thin oil getting to that temp. At 160f my 10 speed isn't seeing the true thinness of that 4.5cst oil.

 

[ctechbob]

Upgrading the cooler would be better than upgrading the fluid in the long run. I'd never want such thin oil getting to that temp. At 160f my 10 speed isn't seeing the true thinness of that 4.5cst oil.

I do think Ford runs them a bit hot. From what I've seen 160-180 is just about the sweet spot, but not a lot you can do about that in a vehicle that's under warranty.

I monitor temps every day I drive. My 12 mile drive to and from work usually doesn't get above 190.

When I'm towing the camper I try not to let it climb much past 210, although on the interstate in the summer down here that is a tough ask. I don't really worry about the fluid breaking down, I just don't want it to get scorching hot.

I have the PPE 'shallow' pan on mine and that brought temps down about 10 deg give or take.

 

[martinq]

I would never want to run an OE ULV fluid if a premium LV fluid is at a similar price. Fuel efficiency is not worth the extra wear to me. I want to use influence what the transmission "lifetime" is, not the warranty.

 

[ctechbob]

I would never want to run an OE ULV fluid if a premium LV fluid is at a similar price. Fuel efficiency is not worth the extra wear to me. I want to use influence what the transmission "lifetime" is, not the warranty.

LV fluids generally don't work out well for the 10 speed transmissions. You usually end up with balky shifting over the long run. Lots of these transmissions don't start to shift well until the fluid gets over 160 and thins out, and that is with the ULV fluids.

 

[BobsArmory]

If you want to stick with OEM def look at Rock Auto. I got AcDelco ULV a while back for less than $5 per quart. At that price I can replace fluid annually for chump change. That said I do like Amsoil & HPL products.

 

[ctechbob]

If you want to stick with OEM def look at Rock Auto. I got AcDelco ULV a while back for less than $5 per quart. At that price I can replace fluid annually for chump change. That said I do like Amsoil & HPL products.

That was my thinking too. I do a D&F every 10k, which, at least in my mind, is a 'complete change' every 30k. Doing that with HPL would break the bank in a big bad way, so I stick with either Valvoline or Motorcraft, whichever happens to be on sale when I'm buying.

Its just my way of doing a 3x D&F every 30K, just stretched out. Since I have the PPE pan it takes minutes.

 

[KCJeep]

I’ve never seen my Mustang’s over 150. I don’t know whether or not to believe it.

 

[meep]

LV fluids generally don't work out well for the 10 speed transmissions. You usually end up with balky shifting over the long run. Lots of these transmissions don't start to shift well until the fluid gets over 160 and thins out, and that is with the ULV fluids.

@martinq

I concur - i tried “upgrading” to amsoil when they recommended their LV for the ULV application and it made shifting worse, not better. 10R80 is sensitive to viscosity.

 

[JavierH19]

I’ve never seen my Mustang’s over 150. I don’t know whether or not to believe it.

Very likely real. I've never seen 170 in my truck. Usually 150 and sometimes 160 but a long wheelbase escalade is a bunch heavier and a lot less aerodynamic so a lightweight ecoboost mustang drivetrain is gonna have much less load on it. No reason why it can't run cooler. The only ecoboost I like is the 2.3 as it's a robust unit compared to the others. I wish ford would put it in the f150 and expedition at least as an sfe option which they've done before with the f150.

 

[ctechbob]

I wish ford would put it in the f150 and expedition at least as an sfe option which they've done before with the f150.

I want them to either bring the PHEV Ranger here or put the 2.3/Hybrid in the F150. Either way, I agree, the 2.3 has a whole lot of positives over the other EB's.

Metal oil pan, gear driven oil pump, external water pump.....no stretch belts on the Ranger....

Only thing it lacks (which I swore I heard they were changing on the new generation) is port injection to go with the GDI.

Mine has been an absolutely fantastic 'little' engine, even when pulling over 6000# on the highway.

 

[martinq]

@martinq

I concur - i tried “upgrading” to amsoil when they recommended their LV for the ULV application and it made shifting worse, not better. 10R80 is sensitive to viscosity.

If I recall, there are TSBs for servicing the transmission that detail resetting / re-learning / calibration. Depending on the specific ECM & firmware it might adjust automatically in time but it would be helpful to know the specifics for YOUR application.

... long rant about my latest tranny experience...

I found out through lots of digging that there is a TCU reset procedure for my application (Nissan CVT) that can be done with $5 software and a $20 OBD2 Bluetooth adapter in a "forgotten" PDF from a transmission rebuilder. If I was to rely on the mfg info I'd be looking at hundreds $$$ in dealer cost or thousands to do it myself.

I also discovered, in my case, that I could find & swap a newer, used, TCU with updated firmware for 1/3 the cost of paying for programming (hundreds $$$) or $2500 for a new unit. The old firmware was destroying the CVT, (see Nissan class actions worldwide) and none of the 12 dealers I contacted were able to understand this or would recommend the update (Nissan would be admitting fault if they explained the situation).

Changing fluids to equivalent spec, aftermarket, premium, high VI's, etc (Maxlife, Amsoil, etc) would not fix or save the transmission without the new firmware. The viscosity difference has minimal effect but higher will reduce wear and lower will improve fuel economy. Same with CVT, AT, MT as with engine oil. So when someone says "you have to use the OE fluid or it won't shift right", or "aftermarket fluids will wreck your tranny", I understand that they are missing the bigger picture.

TLDR: Every specific application has its unique requirements and unless you know what they are you may come up with unusual or undesirable results.

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

I want them to either bring the PHEV Ranger here or put the 2.3/Hybrid in the F150. Either way, I agree, the 2.3 has a whole lot of positives over the other EB's.

Metal oil pan, gear driven oil pump, external water pump.....no stretch belts on the Ranger....

Only thing it lacks (which I swore I heard they were changing on the new generation) is port injection to go with the GDI.

Mine has been an absolutely fantastic 'little' engine, even when pulling over 6000# on the highway.

The 2025 broncos with the 2.3L do come with MPI and DI which is nice. 2.3 Mustangs got that last year and Explorers are also getting it this year, reportedly. Not sure about the Rangers. New 2.3L Ecoboost

 

[meep]

If I recall, there are TSBs for servicing the transmission that detail resetting / re-learning / calibration. Depending on the specific ECM & firmware it might adjust automatically in time but it would be helpful to know the specifics for YOUR application.

... long rant about my latest tranny experience...

I found out through lots of digging that there is a TCU reset procedure for my application (Nissan CVT) that can be done with $5 software and a $20 OBD2 Bluetooth adapter in a "forgotten" PDF from a transmission rebuilder. If I was to rely on the mfg info I'd be looking at hundreds $$$ in dealer cost or thousands to do it myself.

I also discovered, in my case, that I could find & swap a newer, used, TCU with updated firmware for 1/3 the cost of paying for programming (hundreds $$$) or $2500 for a new unit. The old firmware was destroying the CVT, (see Nissan class actions worldwide) and none of the 12 dealers I contacted were able to understand this or would recommend the update (Nissan would be admitting fault if they explained the situation).

Changing fluids to equivalent spec, aftermarket, premium, high VI's, etc (Maxlife, Amsoil, etc) would not fix or save the transmission without the new firmware. The viscosity difference has minimal effect but higher will reduce wear and lower will improve fuel economy. Same with CVT, AT, MT as with engine oil. So when someone says "you have to use the OE fluid or it won't shift right", or "aftermarket fluids will wreck your tranny", I understand that they are missing the bigger picture.

TLDR: Every specific application has its unique requirements and unless you know what they are you may come up with unusual or undesirable results.

Totally agree. Thats some pretty wild learning you did with the Nissan… idk if I could have figured all that out! Ford owners have a benefit of Russian-sourced (I think) “Forscan” software. Of course, we can’t get licenses for it at the moment but it is well supported, has regular updates, and has been exceedingly reliable for something as capable as it is at minimal cost (even free trial licenses). And yes, FS allows the operator to reset the adaptives with an easy click. Current beta does F/W updates!

I just sold my ford and quite miss having such a good tool. My Tacoma is like a black box to me - I don’t have recent enough software to talk to it.