Foaming caused by Lucas [Picture]

[weatherdude]

A co-worker of mine has been bragging about how well Lucas Oil Stabilizer works in his transmission for the past couple of weeks. I showed him the test ran by Bob on this site, and he blew it off as being rigged by a salesman for another oil company. So I decided to do a little test. It was time to change my transmission fluid out anyways, so I replaced it with 75% Phillips SMP 80w90 (a good dino fluid I've used in the past), and 25% Lucas per Lucas' instructions.

We idled the car in neutral for 15 minutes, and then drained the transmission again. Here is what we found:

The quallity of the photo isn't the best, but the foam should be obvious. Both the SMP and Lucas are a light amber color that would have been hard to see in the black drain pan. The foam is almost white. When dumped into my 5gal. pail I use to store used oil for recycling, the majority that I dumped was this foam. Maybe 10% amber fluid.

He then asked me to change his transmission fluid this afternoon since I was already changing mine.

 

[ChrisW]

Wow....truly...wow

 

[weatherdude]

quote:

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Originally posted by ChrisW:
Wow....truly...wow

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That pretty much sums it up. I wish my phone took better pictures. That one doesn't do it justice! I should have snapped a shot of it coming out of the transmission and one of it going into the recycle pail. It litterally sent chills down my spine. Bob's experiment showed air getting mixed in, but I never dreamed that it would be this severe.

 

[Pablo]

Wow - many of BOB's experiments are quite hokey, but wholy moley - that's NASTY!!!!

15 minute. Idling? WOW!!

 

[MolaKule]

Run the test without the Lucas and see what yu get under the same conditions.

A common misconception is that air bubbles in an oil is an indication of poor formulation.

This isn't true. The real test is how long did the bubbles take to disappear.

This is one of the criteria for the Foam Stability (ASTM D-892) test.

 

[weatherdude]

quote:

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Originally posted by tenderloin:
"75% Phillips SMP 80w90 (a good dino fluid I've used in the past)"

LOL thats what your friend said about Lucas..

Me thinks you spilled your 12 pack in with the "transmission" fluid. 90% foam, 10% liquid and no failure? Talk about

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I picked the SMP since it was cheap and I knew it was a good lube (on sale for $0.75 a qt at the local Atwoods). No 12 packs involved. The 10% fluid is an eyeball guestamate since I had no way to measure it after I poured it into the recycle pail.

No failure, but it wasn't put under a load (like driving it around would have) either. How long it would have taken for a failure to occur? Who knows. I don't. All I know is that the level of foaming was far greater than I expected after seeing Bob's tests and that I wouldn't feel comfortable with that in my transmission (or engine).

 

[weatherdude]

quote:

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Originally posted by MolaKule:
Run the test without the Lucas and see what yu get under the same conditions.

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About every time I change the gear oil in one of my transmissions would be equal to this test. I always idle in neutral for 15 minutes and then drain. This would be the first time I saw anything like this.

As far as how long it took the foam to go away? The drain pan was taken inside (much to the dismay of my wife

) and we took the picture. We then went out and finished the job on my trans. and drained and refilled his trans. All in all, I would say it took about an hour before I got back to it and dumped it into the recycle pail. There was still thick foam.

 

[Bror Jace]

Wow, that's pretty d@mning ... even for a non-scientific test.

I know a few people who swear by this stuff ... usually in basket-case applications ... like badly worn Land Rover overdrives.

But now, I wouldn't use this stuff if you paid me.

Actually, I'm not surprised that a real-world test showed this stuff up worse than that gears-in-glass test. That display is actually pretty light duty compared to a real transmission or diff duty.

--- Bror Jace

 

[weatherdude]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bror Jace:
Wow, that's pretty d@mning ... even for a non-scientific test.

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Totaly non-scientific

, but I have to admit, I would have expected some major noise coming from the transmission with the amout of foam, but everything sounded normal. I had figured on a result close to Bob's since I wasn't going to be putting a big load on the stuff by driving around. I was proved wrong..

I got a new digital camera yesterday evening, so I won't be relying on the cellphone camera to take shots of this stuff. Hopefully my future contributions with pictures will be of better quallity.

 

[Rob Taggs]

That's gross! Looks like milk!

 

[DJ]

I put links to this thread on a couple of other automotive boards I frequent(model specific) hopefully it makes a difference and stops guys from recommending this crap. I always try to send guys with oil questions here because there is a lot of bad oil info on other non-oil specific sites. Thank you for doing this test.

Also idle in neutral even if you brought it up to high gear and left it idle we could only be talking what a 40mph wheel speed but I would guess you did not use OD so we are talking much lower speeds than that. Just imagine highway usage

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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There was still thick foam.

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Generally, if within 15 minutes the foam doesn't disappear, then there is something wrong with the stuff.

 

[tenderloin]

"75% Phillips SMP 80w90 (a good dino fluid I've used in the past)"

LOL thats what your friend said about Lucas..

Me thinks you spilled your 12 pack in with the "transmission" fluid. 90% foam, 10% liquid and no failure? Talk about

[ December 12, 2004, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: tenderloin ]

 

[JohnBrowning]

I can honestly say that I have never drained out gear lube with foam!! That is insane!

 

[Camu Mahubah]

You idle in neutral for 15 minutes, the gears in your transmission are not even moving in idle. You should have driven for at least 15 minutes... don't get me wrong... I think the Lucas... should be VOA'ed

 

[nickmckinney]

quote:

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Originally posted by Camu Mahubah:
You idle in neutral for 15 minutes, the gears in your transmission are not even moving in idle. You should have driven for at least 15 minutes... don't get me wrong... I think the Lucas... should be VOA'ed

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The input shaft assembly is moving as long as the clutch pedal is not pressed down. So figure maybe 1/4 of the internal parts are moving.

 

[Mystic]

You old guys remember all of the stuff Bob used to do-his tests that seemed so fair and objective? He tested this Lucas supplement and told us that it caused problems. He did comparison wear tests between Schaeffer's motor oil and other products. He tested various fuel system cleaners. He tested Neutra as a fuel system cleaner and as an engine cleaner. We had far fewer members then. I can remember his testing even now.

 

[Schmoe]

I remember the Mercruiser Outdrive fluid versus his stuff. I know, because I was the one that asked for it.

 

[luvs2drive]

Yikes! I've drained Redline MT-90 out of my transmission anfter hard use, and NEVER did it look anything near that!

As a matter of fact, the straight fluid had little to no air bubbles in it at all.
I'll never trust Lucas Stabilizer in my car. Their UCL..a different story!

 

[OldCars]

I've drained several transmission fluids and not once seen anything like this