Flipping tires.

[whizbyu]

I have one of those cars that has much fatter rear tires than front. The rear wheels are cambered such that the inside wears out faster than the outside tread.
It is a Sumitomo HTRZ2, where the tread pattern looks like a palm frond, or a fern. The sidewall has the word "Rotation" and an arrow that tells you "this is the way the tire rolls".
Here is the question. For a car that is driven slowly, barely past the speed limit, never on the track, is it a bad idea to dismount the tires, flip them R>L, L Thanks.

 

[eljefino]

It's a great idea but you'd want to do it every 3-5k miles so you wouldn't get too far worn in one direction. This could get expensive if you don't have your own tire machine.

 

[Eddie]

If they are too worn, then you will have a very small footprint and a safety issue, especially in rain.

 

[OneEyeJack]

Can you try it once with an alignment that might better align you tires for your style of driving?

 

[OVERKILL]

What is the car? My M5 has plenty of negative camber in the rear but wears the tires pretty flat.

 

[HTSS_TR]

I done it more than once for my E430 and S2000 when it had unidirectional tires, when the inside wears out more than the outside by 2/32", I had it flipped with marking the tires align with the vale stem so that no need to re-balance.

 

[yonyon]

After flipping the tires you're going to have reduced grip in the back where you need it most in a wet weather avoidance manoeuvre.

Reversing the rotation of the tires isn't an issue as you can just swap them side-to-side to correct the rotation. Don't forget to do that because if you leave them spinning the wrong way they won't clear water the way they're supposed to.

Possibly a better solution: Find a good alignment guy and discuss your concerns with him. He may be able to adjust things to an other-than-OE spec. setting that will help with tire wear and still be safer than flipped tires. If he has to adjust angles that aren't adjustable out-of-the-box, that can cost some money but so do replacement tires and car crashes and whatnot.

 

[whizbyu]

It is a 996. The alignment is factory spec. Every 996/911 has this issue. Almost all the wear is on the inside 1/3 of the tire.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: whizbyu
It is a 996. The alignment is factory spec. Every 996/911 has this issue. Almost all the wear is on the inside 1/3 of the tire.


And you say you don't track the car at all right? Because a good alignment shop should be able to dial out some of that camber (at the expense of handling) to either reduce or eliminate the issue.

Please note that I have no personal experience with your car, which is why I said "should"

It is possible that there isn't enough adjustment there for an alignment shop to be able to do anything worthwhile. However, it is at least worth a shot

 

[rslifkin]

Or, the other option is to just take corners harder and use that camber

 

[MNL]

Since this thread is recent and about flipping tires on the rim, I got a question about it too. (sorry to hijack)

I score two used tires for $25 each. A 4yr Michelin MXV4 and a 3yr BFG. Both with 7-8/32 tread left but have very slight cupping (aka scalloping). I mounted the tires with the cupped shoulder on the inside so that I didn't have to see them. Balance perfect but they are unbelievable loud. (helicopter noise)

My research show that most cupping happened on the inside shoulder of the tires. I was hoping that flipping it around to have the smooth shoulder on the inside will be better. Do you think flipping the cupped/scalloped side to the outside can lower or eliminate the noise?

BTW, alignment is good.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: MNL
Since this thread is recent and about flipping tires on the rim, I got a question about it too. (sorry to hijack)

I score two used tires for $25 each. A 4yr Michelin MXV4 and a 3yr BFG. Both with 7-8/32 tread left but have very slight cupping (aka scalloping). I mounted the tires with the cupped shoulder on the inside so that I didn't have to see them. Balance perfect but they are unbelievable loud. (helicopter noise)

My research show that most cupping happened on the inside shoulder of the tires. I was hoping that flipping it around to have the smooth shoulder on the inside will be better. Do you think flipping the cupped/scalloped side to the outside can lower or eliminate the noise?

BTW, alignment is good.


No, the noise is not going to go away - at least not right away. The wear pattern is what is generating the noise. You'll have to do something to get a different wear pattern - and that takes time. I would think "scallop in" would be the best approach to developing a new wear pattern, but these wear patterns are difficult to erase.

Good Luck!

 

[whizbyu]

I used to track it. When I did, with tires that were somewhat worn out on the inside, the wear really does even out after a track session. The car has a rear weight bias with most of the engine hanging behind the rear axle. Because of this, the tires have to be 1) like steamrollers, and 2) need to have the alignment specs that lead to uneven wear.

 

[MNL]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer

No, the noise is not going to go away - at least not right away. The wear pattern is what is generating the noise. You'll have to do something to get a different wear pattern - and that takes time. I would think "scallop in" would be the best approach to developing a new wear pattern, but these wear patterns are difficult to erase.

Good Luck!

Originally Posted By: whizbyu
I used to track it. When I did, with tires that were somewhat worn out on the inside, the wear really does even out after a track session. The car has a rear weight bias with most of the engine hanging behind the rear axle. Because of this, the tires have to be 1) like steamrollers, and 2) need to have the alignment specs that lead to uneven wear.


Thanks, I read that when a tire developing cupping, it will stay like that for the life of the tire. But I also read it can be erase and I might have to drive in circle with the cupping on the outside to wear it flat. I'll see what happen when I flip them around this week. The tires don't pull, balanced well, and handle good. It would be a waste to throw them away because of noise. (and a lost of $50)

We'll see (and hear) how it goes.

 

[ChrisW]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: whizbyu
It is a 996. The alignment is factory spec. Every 996/911 has this issue. Almost all the wear is on the inside 1/3 of the tire.


And you say you don't track the car at all right? Because a good alignment shop should be able to dial out some of that camber (at the expense of handling) to either reduce or eliminate the issue.

Please note that I have no personal experience with your car, which is why I said "should"

It is possible that there isn't enough adjustment there for an alignment shop to be able to do anything worthwhile. However, it is at least worth a shot

[Overkill, you may already know this] To the OP, toe and camber go hand in hand, negative camber will exasperate aggressive toe settings. As Overkill has stated, he has a good amount of negative camber in the rear of his M5 and his tires wear even, but I have a feeling that if we were to look at the toe settings of the M5, they'd probably be a bit milder than the Porsche [only taking into account that they're both RWD vehicles, not taking into account differences in the rear suspension design]. The static toe may be good and within factory margins, but when in motion, dynamic toe as it is called, may not be suitable for your style of driving.

 

[default]

Drive it like the car it is and the tires will wear flat. I would be very wary messing with alignment settings on a tail happy Porsche.

 

[PandaBear]

If you do not want to change the alignment of the car, you can do it but it does get expensive.

I'd only do it ONCE when it is near the end of the life of the tires, maybe at around 3 or 4/32 at the worn side of the tires, so afterward they can wear down to about 2/32 when I throw them out.