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They do use what they call a "cellulose blend" ..which looks not unlike rock wool insulation ..gray popcorn maybe. Basically recycled paper products.
Fleetguard Venturi Combo Filters??
- Thread starter tjbeggs
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Ralph if I were to look into a motor guard filter for a 14 quart system would I need 2 filters or just change them every 2k miles? Also you 750 can, did I hear correctly that holds 4 quarts? What does your system run for the 750? With the 750 system how many miles could I run before they need service? I really am not locked into using this filter if its not going to get me where I want. though I and my dad have $300 worth of filter laying there that will last use 6 years if we run 10k on them.
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I think a 750 holds 4 gallons
wow that think would tak eup the other half thats not taken up by my stacks and tool box in my bed!
ok well I got some specs from Fleetguard. I don't think I need to worry about the bypass pluggin too early. The filter is rated at 30micron at 98.7% and 10 micron at 60%.
thats not nearly what I was hoping for. I guess I should ahve done more research before I bought a dozen of them! Time to make some deals on them!
I will wait for my used oil analysis in another 5k but it looks like Ralph was 100% right and these are not much better than a regular old Full flow. I was even expecting something like 20 microns 95% but not 30 micron.
you guys have any good data on a baldwin B50 or B164 for a bypass stand alone. I have heard they are rated at 2 microns at a large percentage.
ok well I got some specs from Fleetguard. I don't think I need to worry about the bypass pluggin too early. The filter is rated at 30micron at 98.7% and 10 micron at 60%.
thats not nearly what I was hoping for. I guess I should ahve done more research before I bought a dozen of them! Time to make some deals on them!
I will wait for my used oil analysis in another 5k but it looks like Ralph was 100% right and these are not much better than a regular old Full flow. I was even expecting something like 20 microns 95% but not 30 micron.
you guys have any good data on a baldwin B50 or B164 for a bypass stand alone. I have heard they are rated at 2 microns at a large percentage.
well gary just answered my question via a search. wix B50 cross is rated at 10 micron nominal. I have heard that bladwin is better like Gary said he has heard but does anybody know? I guess I will send them an e-mail
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Allegedly the B50 is something like a 6um nominal (50%).
This is why Ralph can be so boastful about tp filters. They're very hard to beat in terms of filtering ability. Longevity? There you can out distance them by a good bit.
Every way that I've approached this there is no way out of the size/fine filtering/life span "triangle". If it's fine ..it has to be BIG to get any life out of it ..that means expen$ive in spin-ons. If it lasts long ..and isn't big ..it can't filter that good ..etc...etc.
I can fix you up with a cotton wound filter that will probably last 25k+ and maybe add a gallon to the sump. Now you'll need about 2 feet x 6" of room plus plumbing. You can get it down to 1um ..and all the materials are off the shelf from McMaster (well, most are). The costs are even reasonable ....
..but how many people can fit that in their application
Here was my quick install (among a few others in "testing")
This is why Ralph can be so boastful about tp filters. They're very hard to beat in terms of filtering ability. Longevity? There you can out distance them by a good bit.
Every way that I've approached this there is no way out of the size/fine filtering/life span "triangle". If it's fine ..it has to be BIG to get any life out of it ..that means expen$ive in spin-ons. If it lasts long ..and isn't big ..it can't filter that good ..etc...etc.
I can fix you up with a cotton wound filter that will probably last 25k+ and maybe add a gallon to the sump. Now you'll need about 2 feet x 6" of room plus plumbing. You can get it down to 1um ..and all the materials are off the shelf from McMaster (well, most are). The costs are even reasonable ....
..but how many people can fit that in their application
Here was my quick install (among a few others in "testing")
Gary I would love details. I runa 97 F-350 crew cab long box so I could fit those cans in there all day long!! Building something does worry me. I was a mechanic until about 4 month ago and have a full service shop at my disposal. are you selling these or just know how to build one? Let me know. PM or e-mail if you don't/can't talk about it here. e-mail is [email protected]
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No ..I don't sell them. I got this one from my closing/closed plant. Saved it from the scrap pile. It was used in air filtration/purification in the pilot plant. It's basically a canister that accepts 20" DOE (double open end) filters. Schultz, of PALL and a fellow member, held my hand and led me the entire way on figuring out what I needed to filter oil. Then FilterGuy connected me with a filter manufacturer that produces their own cotton wound elements in the diameter I needed (3.5" X 20) in 1um filtering ability. This particular unit is somewhat obsolete ..but cost a fortune. Like units, of lesser material, are available from McMaster ..and I'm sure other suppliers.
Look on page 347 at www.mcmaster.com. Mine would be (probably) more expensive then the high purity unit at the bottom. McMaster offered 2" and 4" filters ..but the limit of my canister would be under 4" ..or so I reason. They may fit
These are the same sorta thing you see for house water filters. You just have to make sure that you get cotton with a stainless steal core. Oil temps are a little too high for other materials. Look on page 349 for what's good for what in terms of filtering.
You also don't have to get the 20" size. There's a 10" version. Naturally, it will reduce your service length.
Look on page 347 at www.mcmaster.com. Mine would be (probably) more expensive then the high purity unit at the bottom. McMaster offered 2" and 4" filters ..but the limit of my canister would be under 4" ..or so I reason. They may fit
These are the same sorta thing you see for house water filters. You just have to make sure that you get cotton with a stainless steal core. Oil temps are a little too high for other materials. Look on page 349 for what's good for what in terms of filtering.
You also don't have to get the 20" size. There's a 10" version. Naturally, it will reduce your service length.
So this looks like I could get a 20 inch canister for $90 and 1 micron filters, cotton with stainless core for $10 each. I would guess that a filter that size could go over 10,000 mile with out changing if not more.
Do you think thats a realistic expectation? plus it would add at least 4 to 6 quarts.
oh and just nptived in my previous post I said building something does worry me. well i left out the n't on the does. i can fab all day long and like it!
this sound like it might be just what i am looking for. it will filter close to tp last longer than tp and initial cost will be less than 2 tp units is minimum of what would need for my truck.
would you guys agree or have other solutions
Do you think thats a realistic expectation? plus it would add at least 4 to 6 quarts.
oh and just nptived in my previous post I said building something does worry me. well i left out the n't on the does. i can fab all day long and like it!
this sound like it might be just what i am looking for. it will filter close to tp last longer than tp and initial cost will be less than 2 tp units is minimum of what would need for my truck.
would you guys agree or have other solutions
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Naturally, you'll need to do a used oil analysis to verify ..but I think 10k is well within it's limits ..20k even. You can get the filters cheaper from other sources once you see how it does at 10k. The motivation is surely dictated by your annual mileage. McMaster is a nice company service-wise..but a little expensive. You need to be a major order to get some discounting. In my gas application, I'd probably have to swap the oil before the filter just due to not running it enough in a year.
You want to mount this fairly low or vertical. If it can drain into the sump you'll never know your oil level and may take some time to build pressure. You can avoid this by installing check valves (spring=ball type)
You want to mount this fairly low or vertical. If it can drain into the sump you'll never know your oil level and may take some time to build pressure. You can avoid this by installing check valves (spring=ball type)
Gary is there anybody else running a similar setup that you know of? also where is another place to look for materials. the McMaster prices aren't too bad but if there are cheap that would be great. Or atleast more options if there are more.
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One other member plumbed a short one ..but it was years ago. I don't recall his user name. These are basically just like an Oil Guard ..except bigger and more widely available in distribution and filtration level.
I haven't really looked too hard into finding a cheaper source for the canisters. I found it interesting that they allow you to put this together for no more then other offerings designed for it ..maybe less.
This type of setup isn't for everybody.
There's other sources ..just put "filter housing" in google.
Here's one I don't know if they're cheaper or not
I haven't really looked too hard into finding a cheaper source for the canisters. I found it interesting that they allow you to put this together for no more then other offerings designed for it ..maybe less.
This type of setup isn't for everybody.
There's other sources ..just put "filter housing" in google.
Here's one I don't know if they're cheaper or not
Hey Gary...that's a really nice automated/self lubricating grease gun for the ball joints!!
I found a #4521K21 1" ID, 2.5" OD x 20" long element on McMaster for .5 Micron! It flows 10 GPM and is <$20. Very interesting! 10 GPM might be enough for a full flow?
I found a #4521K21 1" ID, 2.5" OD x 20" long element on McMaster for .5 Micron! It flows 10 GPM and is <$20. Very interesting! 10 GPM might be enough for a full flow?
The only way you can make cotton filter as good as TP is if it is as dense as TP. Back in the 60s there was a company in Nebraska that had a filter that compressed cotton. It was kind of like a grape press. It was a very effective filter.
Watch out for claims that say down to, as small as and average.
It doesn't take an engineer to look at a filter media and determine if it has enough depth to clean oil. Long filter life means it is either large or doesn't clean oil.
Watch out for claims that say down to, as small as and average.
It doesn't take an engineer to look at a filter media and determine if it has enough depth to clean oil. Long filter life means it is either large or doesn't clean oil.
ralph the filter I was looking at is 1 3/32 ID and 2.5 od and 20 inches long 1 micron.
But now I am think something else. I finally heard back from Baldwin about the b164 and b50 (same filters different lengths) filters at 1 or 2 microns. they state any percentages so I am waiting to hear back from them on that. so I am thinking baout running the b164 then if I can find a motor guard unit cheap on ebay running one of those.
Running the b164 should allow me to run a single tp filter without a 500 mile service interval.
what do you guy think of that setup?
But now I am think something else. I finally heard back from Baldwin about the b164 and b50 (same filters different lengths) filters at 1 or 2 microns. they state any percentages so I am waiting to hear back from them on that. so I am thinking baout running the b164 then if I can find a motor guard unit cheap on ebay running one of those.
Running the b164 should allow me to run a single tp filter without a 500 mile service interval.
what do you guy think of that setup?
Quote:
Hey Gary...that's a really nice automated/self lubricating grease gun for the ball joints!!
I found a #4521K21 1" ID, 2.5" OD x 20" long element on McMaster for .5 Micron! It flows 10 GPM and is
those few .5 micron filter do look promising for either bypass or full flow. to be used for full flow they wouldn't work (my full flow is rated at around 30 gpm) but smaller engine might be alright. I am look at them more for bypass. but the even the smaller one have too big of flow rate and would need to be orficed somehow to slow the flow.
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They're not going to flow oil at that rate. They're not suitable for full flow service. ..but surely an inlet orifice would be in order just due to the volume that they contain.
The issue with filter size and filter efficiency is that the really efficient TP filters filter out all the hydrocarbon chains that bind around small contaminates. When you use a TP filter, try weighing the TP filter after you are done and comparing it to the weight of a TP filter soaked in fresh oil. I got a 1.4 pound difference. That is a lot contaminates. In more elaborate tests they burn filters after use and the difference in weight between a fresh filter and a dirty filter is assumed to be hard contaminate particles. In that case a TP filter will weigh from 2.5-4.5 extra ounces. The difference between the wet filters and the burned filters is the "sludge" trapped by the TP filter. All these contaminates take space, too much space to easily fit in a spin on filter. This is why Ralph says you need to have a separate filter remote from the spin on filter. If the bypass filter is effective as a TP filter it simply has to take a lot of space, otherwise it cannot trap a lot of contaminates. At this exact moment in time, there really is no filter media more effective at filtering oil than TP. That may change soon with microfibers that could do the same job in half the space, but it has not happened yet. Believe me, I have looked around.
Ok so Baldwin got back to me about the B164 filter. 1 or 2 microns nominal (50%) and 15 micron at 98.75%. So with that info what do you guys think about running the B164 as a "rock catcher" and running a single TP filter on a 14 quart diesel engine? would that give me reason able service life of the filters. I was thinking with UOA about over 10k on full flow, same on the B164 and 2-4k on TP filters before changes? Oil changes will be based on UOA.
Thanks for hanging with me on this thread guys. I ask alot of questions becuase as I have already done on these fleetguard sometimes I get in a hurry and end with results I don't like.
thanks
Tim Beggs
Thanks for hanging with me on this thread guys. I ask alot of questions becuase as I have already done on these fleetguard sometimes I get in a hurry and end with results I don't like.
thanks
Tim Beggs
You're asking someone to validate the compromises you want to make for the convenience factor. If you are trying to do bypass filtration on a relatively large diesel sump you have to go large. MG750, Gulf Coast, etc. Those are the filters you need to do it right. Anything less is a compromise of some sort.
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