I am doing extened OCI's on my 2004 F250 5.4, and am considering adding a magnet wrap to my FL400S filter. Any recommendations or comments? Thank you. Philip
FL400S magnet wrap?
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Kestas
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It's been discussed at length before. It'll trap stuff that would otherwise be caught by the filter element. The magnet may extend the useful life of the filter.
Have you considered trying an FL-1A filter for your vehicle? If it fits, you may have more filtering capacity.
Have you considered trying an FL-1A filter for your vehicle? If it fits, you may have more filtering capacity.
For the filter company with orange filters that sells filters with Teflon in them, the only reason is because they aren't sure they will make money from magnets.
If nothing else, It would have helped in the peace of mind stakes here.....
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=26;t=000228
The current issue of Noria's (site sponsor) Machinery Lubrication (may not be available on their website yet) has an article on magnetic filtration. One drawback is having a lot of metal bits collect in an area where they might later be released, such as where there might be pressure pulses, and clog something downstream. Another drawback is that the tiny metal bits could become magnetized and if they flow downstream can stick to critical metal parts.
All in all I don't like the idea of a filter magnet where pressure would pulse on the opening or closing of the bypass valve.
A magnetic drain plug is much safer IMO.
All in all I don't like the idea of a filter magnet where pressure would pulse on the opening or closing of the bypass valve.
A magnetic drain plug is much safer IMO.
The spin on filter on the Allison transmission in my Silverado / Duramax has a magnet that fits between the oil filter and over the threaded mount on the transmission.
It seems to hold metal particles as a fine metal paste.
It seems to hold metal particles as a fine metal paste.
Here's a few thoughts..
If you have metal pieces in your oil of sufficient size that a magnet would attract them, you've got other problems. Cutting any filter open without magnets and looking at what is left in the bottom of the can will let you know if you have metal in your oil.
There are filters that have magnets. However they are used in hydraulic applications on return lines. Generally these "wraps" of magnets cost about $150. The filter is about 9 inches long and has three magnetic wraps. The filter is a wire screen mesh media. Not a paper element.
But i've always wondered...if you cut open your filter and you found metal pieces..what would you do next?
If you have metal pieces in your oil of sufficient size that a magnet would attract them, you've got other problems. Cutting any filter open without magnets and looking at what is left in the bottom of the can will let you know if you have metal in your oil.
There are filters that have magnets. However they are used in hydraulic applications on return lines. Generally these "wraps" of magnets cost about $150. The filter is about 9 inches long and has three magnetic wraps. The filter is a wire screen mesh media. Not a paper element.
But i've always wondered...if you cut open your filter and you found metal pieces..what would you do next?
I think size of a particle shouldn't matter on whether a magnet will attract it or not. Larger particles would have a stronger attraction, but also more mass to move.
I don't think a magnet on the filter could hurt. You are just extending the life of the filter element before it clogs.
If the particles were released from the magnet, they hopefully would simply lodge in the filter. If the dome-end bypass opens, you will have crud being washed through whether you have a magnet or not.
I don't think a magnet on the filter could hurt. You are just extending the life of the filter element before it clogs.
If the particles were released from the magnet, they hopefully would simply lodge in the filter. If the dome-end bypass opens, you will have crud being washed through whether you have a magnet or not.
The Machinery Lubrication article (Sept-Oct 05) states that "large ferromagnetic particles are disproportionately easier to separate from a fluid compared to smaller particles." This is because the magnetic force is proportional to the volume of the particle, but varies with the cube of the particle's diameter.
A true but meaningless statement unless the article went on to explain why that distinction mattered.
About 10 years ago a fleet operation tested earth magnets stuck on filters (they were really hard to take off), with a control group and no magnets. Cut open filters showed the magnets picked up stuff but there was no practical difference in uoa's over 50k miles. The uoa's were done on every other 5k change with dyno oil, and no trends were noted. Answer, too expensive and not much if any difference. Things may have changed in 10 years, so the real answer is, do a test. Trying to guess might give you the wrong answer.
As a side note, one car had a block off plate and no filter. They did 3k instead of 5k oil changes with this car and the uoa's fell right in line with the other vehicles. At 50k miles they put the filter back on.
As a side note, one car had a block off plate and no filter. They did 3k instead of 5k oil changes with this car and the uoa's fell right in line with the other vehicles. At 50k miles they put the filter back on.
LarryL:
I would surmize that the reason the uoa's were not effected ( magnets v no magnets) is that the particle sizes rated by uoa's are to small.
Magnets may attract larger particles, which is basically what Tall Paul is mentioning. But by the same token any particle large enough for the human eye to see is realistically filtered at 99.999% efficiency. And these are the sizes of particles that magents on the outside of the filter will gather up. So there isn't a benefit.
I would surmize that the reason the uoa's were not effected ( magnets v no magnets) is that the particle sizes rated by uoa's are to small.
Magnets may attract larger particles, which is basically what Tall Paul is mentioning. But by the same token any particle large enough for the human eye to see is realistically filtered at 99.999% efficiency. And these are the sizes of particles that magents on the outside of the filter will gather up. So there isn't a benefit.
Filter guy, that's what others thought, too. When the test was done, some though there would be a dramatic result. Magnets were going to save the fleet, we were told. When it didn't happen the magnet salesman sniped the test. The guy that sold the magnets was really upset. He blamed the mechanics and the people driving the cars. He was upset at my software for printing the reports. Sometimes testing does not produce the results one expects. That means the test is defective. One should always find what one is looking for and the testing is only there to prove how smart smart you are. With many a salesmen, there is always an explaination. But look out for good testing, not perfect test schemes, but just good practical tests. There's a line from 'A Few Good Men'... 'You want answers.......?'.
I can't see a magnet wrap as being anything but a help. If it's pulling metal to the side of the can, as it does, it's showing it's doing it's job. That's just that more gunk that isn't finding its way into the filtering media. The idea of the filter magnet goes along the same lines as a magnetic drain plug or even a trans pan magnet. Some racing engine builders even epoxy magnets inside the engine to catch debris. I say go for it if the magnet is something you wanted to try.
99..
In theory your right.
In practical application, the larger particles, if there are any, are not caught by the media. They drop to the bottom of the can anyway because their size is to large.
The size particles that the media actually traps are the 40 micron and below. Again, magnets have trouble capturing these smaller size particles.
If a magnet was good and powerful enough to stop particles below the humans eye's ability to see, which is what 40 microns is at 20/20 vision, then it would help to lenghten the life of the filter.
However, when you and I change our filters they have lot's of life left anyway. Unless you have sludgy oil or a very dirty engine or keep your filter on for some length of time you should have plenty of life left. So what little metal that is there, if any, is of no consequence.
So the "fleet test" that showed magnets of no discernable benefit basically confirms this...imo.
I think some people expect magnets to attract particles that the filter would normally capture but the fleet test didn't show conclusively that they did.
As I said earlier..if you do find metal in your filter, you've got other problems.
In theory your right.
In practical application, the larger particles, if there are any, are not caught by the media. They drop to the bottom of the can anyway because their size is to large.
The size particles that the media actually traps are the 40 micron and below. Again, magnets have trouble capturing these smaller size particles.
If a magnet was good and powerful enough to stop particles below the humans eye's ability to see, which is what 40 microns is at 20/20 vision, then it would help to lenghten the life of the filter.
However, when you and I change our filters they have lot's of life left anyway. Unless you have sludgy oil or a very dirty engine or keep your filter on for some length of time you should have plenty of life left. So what little metal that is there, if any, is of no consequence.
So the "fleet test" that showed magnets of no discernable benefit basically confirms this...imo.
I think some people expect magnets to attract particles that the filter would normally capture but the fleet test didn't show conclusively that they did.
As I said earlier..if you do find metal in your filter, you've got other problems.
A hard drive head drive "rare earth" neodymium magnet is easy enough to come by, and cost-free if you just ask a mom-'n-pop computer store owner if he has any crapped out hard drives around. I put one on the oil filter at each change. They're strong enough they're not going anyplace without a LOT of help. Dunno if doing this does any good, but I don't believe it can hurt, either. (probably more a peace of mind issue for me) Whatever it's catching and holding to the inside of the filter can is either too small to be filtered or, if large enough to be filtered, isn't adding to the load trapped in the filter media. In the end, NO one will settle this debate. Just do whatever floats yer boat.
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