Fixing old bodywork
- Thread starter JHZR2
- Start date
JHZR2
Staff member
It is NOT the door.
JHZR2
Staff member
But what’s the hint?? Or is that a trade secret?
Im judging by consistency in the wear and rub marks on continuous panels, FWIW.
Just judging from the visible cracking and waviness, that filler looks thick. Once you start yanking out chunks of that, it's going to be a lot of work to make it nice again.
I like the idea of pulling what ever interior panels you can from the ext. cab area to get a look at the structure from the interior, but you hate to disturb good plastic panels that are going to be brittle at this age. How about one of those endoscope cameras that you can plug into your phone, etc.?
I like the idea of pulling what ever interior panels you can from the ext. cab area to get a look at the structure from the interior, but you hate to disturb good plastic panels that are going to be brittle at this age. How about one of those endoscope cameras that you can plug into your phone, etc.?
that probably came off as abrupt.
It is hard to explain but you can just tell or at least form a pretty solid opinion after a while. But there's no real substitute for actually laying eyes on it for something like this.
If it were me I d take the interior panel off and see what i can see, sounds like that's your plan... so we will know more after that.
JHZR2
Staff member
No, I know and appreciate that this is the case, there are folks who build an eye for it. I can make some bad or differing paint jobs out if I look for them…
And I have a very untrained eye. But like to learn…
I like Paint Society on YouTube for his paint and body work. Very knowledgeable and helpful.
The best i can explain it is in the picture that shows the cab corner (2nd to last in the OP) the reflections along the top below the moulding look wrong for factory and it looks "thick" for lack of a better explanation.
One other thing that makes me suspect is the proximity to the damage, you need a few inches to feather the plastic.
If i were there i would be looking close at the pinch weld on the bottom and in the jamb for signs of dry spray / overspray.
Also, keep in mind (it doesn't sound like you care) that no paint company that i'm aware of will warranty the product if the whole panel is not cleared. When taking to shops you may get better results if you let them off the hook early in the conversation on this.
If you can snag a reasonable $ MIL gauge it would be interesting, it'll give you a much better idea...
If I had to guess I would say once you get all the bondo off you probably find a patch panel still in good shape but is rusting at the welds.
I have seen this many times, the bondo has absorbed moisture through porous welds, it has started to rust which cracked the filler.
You must remove all that filler to get some idea of what you are dealing and go from there. If it is a patch panel the repair is easy enough to prevent it returning.
JHZR2
Staff member
Thanks. I guess what I’m wondering really is how to start. Just use a chisel or other scraping tool and chip it away gently? Or sand it (only)? Or something else?
It’s kind of a where to start. And I’ll probably only go in the silver area, if I find bondo or anything else further I’ll probably stop to let a pro explore more…
thanks. I will probably get one of those thickness sensors after Christmas.
The pics I took were in my garage, some with natural light and long exposure, some with flashlight lighting the area. The old magnetic ballast in the 50 year old fluorescent bulb in my garage didn’t want to start at 15F.
OP replied and said this model truck doesn't have the rear doors. Fixed panels so body work is required.
Keep us updated with pics as you progress. This should be interesting.
Personally I would go right at it with a 24-36 grit flap wheel but that is not for the faint of heart, you have to have a plan and winter is no time to being doing it without a heated shop. Got to get down to bare metal, there really is no way around it, the rust is there and is not on top but under the filler.
JHZR2
Staff member
Ok. Yeah my intent would be to tape off where I don’t want to go, and work it in a specific range to see what I get. I was primarily curious if I should chip/break some off first….
I wouldnt until I was ready to get right at it, breaking stuff off is just going to expose the filler even more. Regular filler absorbs moisture and water like a sponge making things worse.
JHZR2
Staff member
You are right about the black. I looked closer and I think they blended at an OE rocker weld point and tucked behind the corner.
I can see cracking into the black. I don’t think that used to be there. I’ve let it get wet too often I think.
One cutoff point:
The other sloppy one:
Just means more needs to get sanded/removed and refinished.
I like to trick myself into thinking tha ospho on a sponge hydraulically forced into tape confined cracks bleeding rust, might at least slow down the hidden rust progress until i feel like busting out cheap chisels, 7 in ones, dental pics amd the files to sharpen them repeatedly.
I find 36 grit sanding wheels , not flap sanders with their weird angle and imprecise edge, backed by a cut off wheel on angle grinder, slowed by a router speed controller to be a good fast precise removal tool.
One never knows just how bad the rust is until one digs and finds the edges of compromise. Or willfully ignores those outside the tape.
Carbide burrs on a dremel that uses a 90 degree attachment is also precise and fast. The 90 degree attachment yields exceptional additional control and precision, and takes the stress off the dremels own internal shaft bearings.
I consider my 90 degree attachment a sacrificial wear item, but have yet to wear it out, though i am on the 3rd set of brushes and 4th set of carbide burrs. I usually ruin the burrs from kickback and bending their heads. Can still use them but they vibrate badly and stress the 90 degree even more, yet it still has not failed.
Also the diamond cut off wheels on the dremel. Even when the edge is smooth, the face still suprisingly mows throught filler and paint and iron oxide and through black iron phosphate to the bare steel or iron oxide below it. Makes an impressive brown dust cloud that shames the chisel's efficacy and frustrates he who had weilded it other than to lift paint upto the tape.
I find soon as new brown oxide is revealed below phosphate blackened oxide, apply ospho on a small piece of foam rubber/sponge held.in needle nose angled pliers and it goes black relatively quickly and cleans and etches the newly revealed bare steel.
I have no welding tools or skills.
I Have to rely on the incredible bond strengt and flexibility of surfboard laminating epoxy, which requires complete removal of all contaminates, back to bare.pitted steel when possible, and lots.of mechanical tooth made with sharp tools in a cross hatch pattern.
Ill go.as far as weilding many fresh razors at hard olposing angles before applying epoxy mixed precisely, and thoroughly to ratio to 0.01.of a gram. Always by weight. Volume mixing way too imprecise to yield full potential bonding and strength properties of the epoxy.
I Make my own completely impermeable body filler when needed by mixing in milled fiberglass powder and wood flour collected from a belt sander 120 grit belt and western red cedar mixed into the laminating epoxy, whose viscosity before is about a 30 weight paint bare steel with u thickened epoxy, then add milled fiberglass and then wood flour till peanut buttery viscosity, then apply.
The wood flour makes it same color as rust though. Better thixotropic agents exist
sands like iron, bonds like JBweld and perhaps better.
Not a correct method by any means, and proper prep is very time and labor intensive, but buys me, enough time so far.. Ive had no rust form under and lift epoxy ive applied even, on 10+ year old jobs when i was slightly less.ocd. Even some i knowingly didnt really spend the effort to prep properly. I have had it form but only right upto next to where my confining tape had been applied and epoxy ended.
MY mopar is older, and earlier in my 22 year ownership of it, it cumulatively spent years, parked atop a bluff.over the Pacific in Baja, caked with fresh layer wind driven salt daily, so this incorrect joke of method of bodywork was developed and refined.
Dont.confuse polyester 'fiberglass resin' repairs on poorly prepped steel to epoxy saturated fiberglass onto steel which was.
Also the epoxy i use can be painted on thick and be stink free and impervious to moisture in a few hours, so while it needs to be painted with real paint for UV protection, that can come later when conditions and time permit.
But 6+ hours at 60f+ is also a challenge with the epoxy i use. While lesser time before sub 60f occurs, then next day 8 hours of 70f + happens, the epoxy seems to bond better, be strongger more.flexible,and sand better, if it gets 6+ hours at 60f plus right after mixing.
But often that is not a choice for me, just a limiting factor and a reluctant acceptance followed asap with intentional memory loss regarding the occurrence.
While.i could sand and fill my incorrect filler/bodywork to perfection, and rattlecan and clear with the best of them, i never go that far on my vehicle.
I call it the washed sneaker.
Things I make from scratch, for others get my full ocd when appearances matter and beauty paramount.
My 32.6 year old rusted mopar, only the mechanics get that level of ocd.
Screw the appearance, stop and hide the rust, roll on the yacht enamel one a section at a time, the sneaker was first washed long ago.
Anyway, seriously, the dremel with right angle attachment, various size diamond coated cut off wheels. Ospho on a sponge or old foam rubber, red scotchbrite,. Carbide burrs. Angle grinder on router speed controller as one does not need 14k rpm for each amd every task, nor consume 800watts doing it, spewing 78 decibels 40 yards away to that ticking timebomb of an unstable neighbor.
I just got a second RSC, for the shop vac used to capture the dust as its made, with s hooks and various flex hose attachments to capture that which need not enter lungs of anyone nearby.
Also strong headlamp, and bifocals. Bright worksurface, in shade, on sunny day, pinprickex.pupils, cant see anything without 800+ lumens shooting from forehead,.focused at work and implement of destruction, then construction, in gloved but c
CAlloused, soon to be arthritic, fingers.
Nevermind, hire it out, life's too short and all such efforts wont matter in 33.6 years anyway.
I find 36 grit sanding wheels , not flap sanders with their weird angle and imprecise edge, backed by a cut off wheel on angle grinder, slowed by a router speed controller to be a good fast precise removal tool.
One never knows just how bad the rust is until one digs and finds the edges of compromise. Or willfully ignores those outside the tape.
Carbide burrs on a dremel that uses a 90 degree attachment is also precise and fast. The 90 degree attachment yields exceptional additional control and precision, and takes the stress off the dremels own internal shaft bearings.
I consider my 90 degree attachment a sacrificial wear item, but have yet to wear it out, though i am on the 3rd set of brushes and 4th set of carbide burrs. I usually ruin the burrs from kickback and bending their heads. Can still use them but they vibrate badly and stress the 90 degree even more, yet it still has not failed.
Also the diamond cut off wheels on the dremel. Even when the edge is smooth, the face still suprisingly mows throught filler and paint and iron oxide and through black iron phosphate to the bare steel or iron oxide below it. Makes an impressive brown dust cloud that shames the chisel's efficacy and frustrates he who had weilded it other than to lift paint upto the tape.
I find soon as new brown oxide is revealed below phosphate blackened oxide, apply ospho on a small piece of foam rubber/sponge held.in needle nose angled pliers and it goes black relatively quickly and cleans and etches the newly revealed bare steel.
I have no welding tools or skills.
I Have to rely on the incredible bond strengt and flexibility of surfboard laminating epoxy, which requires complete removal of all contaminates, back to bare.pitted steel when possible, and lots.of mechanical tooth made with sharp tools in a cross hatch pattern.
Ill go.as far as weilding many fresh razors at hard olposing angles before applying epoxy mixed precisely, and thoroughly to ratio to 0.01.of a gram. Always by weight. Volume mixing way too imprecise to yield full potential bonding and strength properties of the epoxy.
I Make my own completely impermeable body filler when needed by mixing in milled fiberglass powder and wood flour collected from a belt sander 120 grit belt and western red cedar mixed into the laminating epoxy, whose viscosity before is about a 30 weight paint bare steel with u thickened epoxy, then add milled fiberglass and then wood flour till peanut buttery viscosity, then apply.
The wood flour makes it same color as rust though. Better thixotropic agents exist
sands like iron, bonds like JBweld and perhaps better.
Not a correct method by any means, and proper prep is very time and labor intensive, but buys me, enough time so far.. Ive had no rust form under and lift epoxy ive applied even, on 10+ year old jobs when i was slightly less.ocd. Even some i knowingly didnt really spend the effort to prep properly. I have had it form but only right upto next to where my confining tape had been applied and epoxy ended.
MY mopar is older, and earlier in my 22 year ownership of it, it cumulatively spent years, parked atop a bluff.over the Pacific in Baja, caked with fresh layer wind driven salt daily, so this incorrect joke of method of bodywork was developed and refined.
Dont.confuse polyester 'fiberglass resin' repairs on poorly prepped steel to epoxy saturated fiberglass onto steel which was.
Also the epoxy i use can be painted on thick and be stink free and impervious to moisture in a few hours, so while it needs to be painted with real paint for UV protection, that can come later when conditions and time permit.
But 6+ hours at 60f+ is also a challenge with the epoxy i use. While lesser time before sub 60f occurs, then next day 8 hours of 70f + happens, the epoxy seems to bond better, be strongger more.flexible,and sand better, if it gets 6+ hours at 60f plus right after mixing.
But often that is not a choice for me, just a limiting factor and a reluctant acceptance followed asap with intentional memory loss regarding the occurrence.
While.i could sand and fill my incorrect filler/bodywork to perfection, and rattlecan and clear with the best of them, i never go that far on my vehicle.
I call it the washed sneaker.
Things I make from scratch, for others get my full ocd when appearances matter and beauty paramount.
My 32.6 year old rusted mopar, only the mechanics get that level of ocd.
Screw the appearance, stop and hide the rust, roll on the yacht enamel one a section at a time, the sneaker was first washed long ago.
Anyway, seriously, the dremel with right angle attachment, various size diamond coated cut off wheels. Ospho on a sponge or old foam rubber, red scotchbrite,. Carbide burrs. Angle grinder on router speed controller as one does not need 14k rpm for each amd every task, nor consume 800watts doing it, spewing 78 decibels 40 yards away to that ticking timebomb of an unstable neighbor.
I just got a second RSC, for the shop vac used to capture the dust as its made, with s hooks and various flex hose attachments to capture that which need not enter lungs of anyone nearby.
Also strong headlamp, and bifocals. Bright worksurface, in shade, on sunny day, pinprickex.pupils, cant see anything without 800+ lumens shooting from forehead,.focused at work and implement of destruction, then construction, in gloved but c
CAlloused, soon to be arthritic, fingers.
Nevermind, hire it out, life's too short and all such efforts wont matter in 33.6 years anyway.
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