And where all the electricity comes from at night and times when the wind isn't blowing.
Financial comparison - heat pump water heater vs tankless
- Thread starter Donald
- Start date
Id imagine it has to have some type of freeze protection.
hpwh is cheaper to run than propane. we arent talking NG here.
AFAIK not too much propane powered electrical generation out there.
Pumping NG is cheap, pumping electricity around slightly more (and you have to factor in time of use pricing since you can't store electricity). For propane, I have a feeling that unless you can hoard a truck full of tanks between seasons you will be paying always the higher demand seasonal price or you have to make trips to swap tanks, refill, etc. Someone is doing the labor and labor is expensive.
Biggest problem with tankless is you need a much larger exhaust / flue because everything must be heated fast. If you use electric then you need to heat it fast so you need a higher current in your circuit. You always have a trade off between load and storage.
Biggest problem with tankless is you need a much larger exhaust / flue because everything must be heated fast. If you use electric then you need to heat it fast so you need a higher current in your circuit. You always have a trade off between load and storage.
Have any of you seen an exterior-mounted tankless water heater? They don't need venting. Yes, they aren't pretty and I'm sure can be difficult to find a suitable place on the outside of a typical subdivision home today since they are basically on top of each other...
But it's pretty common.
But it's pretty common.
The issue is methane leaks. Every connection to an ever expanding distribution system introduces a new failure point. For example almost all regulators on NatGas furnaces leak* to some degree and homeowners don't shut off the supply valve when heating season is over. *They don't necessarily leak enough where you would smell it but a simple sniffer used by HVAC technician will get a hit.
My home is all gas so I have 6 potential leak points (4 burners on gas stove, gas hwh, gas dryer). Every home in my development is built the same and contains 180 units. That's 1,080 potential leak points within one-half sq/mile
Methane has been leaking into the atmosphere for a few billion years.
Yeah, but not from your appliances or livestock. Methane from those is bad.
In the same way that CO2 from developed nations is bad and CO2 from china is fine.
Right but as you are aware there's natural and unnatural contributions. Humans are adding to what occurs naturally.
BTW you would not likely survive on earth 1 billion years ago.
Conditions on earth 1 billion years ago was about -80 degrees, at the equator.
There was essentially no oxygen at the time.
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LG just announced an inverter heat pump hot water heater and with some other heat pump related products. No price that I could find.
So for me I have concluded the 50 gal is not enough hot water for Jacuzzi. The gas tank style hot water heaters above 50 gal seem to be commercial and to be double or triple the cost of a residential 50 gal one.
Installing a 120v hybrid water heater looks like a piece of cake with the biggest problem being wrestling a new 300 lb hot water heater into place.
I did some reading on this one. The tank alone is about the same cost as a hybrid water heater from HD or Lowes. And then another $3000 for the outdoor unit.
I thought if I bought one I might put the outdoor unit in the garage. They strongly suggest you have a backup generator if you are installing the outdoor unit in an area where it might freeze. The outdoor unit moves water to/from the tank not some type of refrigerant like a typical HVAC outdoor compressor.
So true, but we are a nation of Tv watchers that believe what ever the Tv tells us to believe.
My old house had two water heaters it was a long narrow house and had 2 bathrooms on one end and the kitchen. laundry room and 1 bathroom on the other end , I guess the builder thought that was a good idea. Any way I was thinking on getting a Rinnai tankless water heater and installing it outdoors. I assembled the parts for the install, and like magic the water heater started leaking ,it was ten years old grr. Any way I went to the Rinnai store and they were closed. I went to Home Depot and with in an hour put the new water heater in.
I have settled on an 80 gallon hybrid hot water heater. Hoping President Day sales soon.
Looking mainly at Home Depot and Lowe's. Home Depot 80 gal nominal or rated 72. Lowe's is nominal and rated 80. That's 10% more capacity at Lowe's. Home Depot has slightly more efficiency. And the 120V model from Home Depot has no electric coil but the one from Lowes has a small electric coil. And the 120V one from Lowes is slightly less efficient than the 220V one at Lowe's.
I would hope most of the time I would never use the electric coil but if the house is full with guests then maybe I would change the mode to use the electric coil.
Looking mainly at Home Depot and Lowe's. Home Depot 80 gal nominal or rated 72. Lowe's is nominal and rated 80. That's 10% more capacity at Lowe's. Home Depot has slightly more efficiency. And the 120V model from Home Depot has no electric coil but the one from Lowes has a small electric coil. And the 120V one from Lowes is slightly less efficient than the 220V one at Lowe's.
I would hope most of the time I would never use the electric coil but if the house is full with guests then maybe I would change the mode to use the electric coil.
Hey Donald, have you gotten the new one yet? Satisfied? Just curious, does it run the jacuzzi like it should?
I'm surprised no one here asked you how old the one you wanted to replace was. IME - a 5 year old heater works a bit less better than a new one, and a 10 year old one works quite a bit less well than an new one (even if you flush it once a year or so and do the anode rod - which I bet not one in 10000 people really do). People are often surprised that their old heater would barely get teen daughter #1 and 2 through a shower while a new one - same specs - gets teen 1 and 2 though a shower just fine and runs the dishwasher and the washer at the same time.
Also surprised that nobody suggested a small tankless 120v just running the jacuzzi (especially if you have a basement or crawl space that you can get to the water line easily. Sure, a small one would take a few minutes longer to fill, but it would be about $250 if you could DIY it and you didn't have to open a wall.
They way the standard ones work, your 50 was probably only really giving you 25-30 gallons of hot hot water even turned all the way up, if it was 10 years old or more. A new one would have given you more around 35. 5 extra gallons of 145-150 degree water is a huge difference. Drain and fill flushes (I use back pressure to stir sediment up personally, which is marginally better) don't really get much sediment out. Now if you go in through the top as mentioned somewhere previously and stir all that goop up and suck it out or at least agitate it as it bottom drains, you'll get more out.
Either way, hope its working out for you!
I'm surprised no one here asked you how old the one you wanted to replace was. IME - a 5 year old heater works a bit less better than a new one, and a 10 year old one works quite a bit less well than an new one (even if you flush it once a year or so and do the anode rod - which I bet not one in 10000 people really do). People are often surprised that their old heater would barely get teen daughter #1 and 2 through a shower while a new one - same specs - gets teen 1 and 2 though a shower just fine and runs the dishwasher and the washer at the same time.
Also surprised that nobody suggested a small tankless 120v just running the jacuzzi (especially if you have a basement or crawl space that you can get to the water line easily. Sure, a small one would take a few minutes longer to fill, but it would be about $250 if you could DIY it and you didn't have to open a wall.
They way the standard ones work, your 50 was probably only really giving you 25-30 gallons of hot hot water even turned all the way up, if it was 10 years old or more. A new one would have given you more around 35. 5 extra gallons of 145-150 degree water is a huge difference. Drain and fill flushes (I use back pressure to stir sediment up personally, which is marginally better) don't really get much sediment out. Now if you go in through the top as mentioned somewhere previously and stir all that goop up and suck it out or at least agitate it as it bottom drains, you'll get more out.
Either way, hope its working out for you!
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