Filter test snafu - have to drop back and punt

[Gary Allan]

Well, the guinea pig is up and running ..and running well.

Unfortunately

the PSID jumped from about 4 or 5 psid to about 10 PSID shortly after the repair. The engine was open for about a month ..most of it indoors ..but I'm sure that there were nasties that lined the bores and that coolant (only H20) made it past the rings.

Just to remind everyone, I noted a slight jump right after I put in the MC 5w-20. It showed more PSID than 10w-30, 15w-40, and 20w-50. Perhaps there was something that 5w-20 could reach that the others could not in terms of splash lubrication ..or perhaps some component of the oil liberated something

. This was a triple Auto-Rx engine and had swapped sumps like some swap underware prior to the MC 5w-20.

Anyway, a new PureOne in the PL10241 (PH3614) size is going on this weekend along with a fresh batch of MC 5w-20.

Additionally, the MC 5w-20 works just fine in 90F temps ...highway (surely) and urban variable stop and go. Low pressure appeared to be 20/15 (PSID with this oil evolution was higher then the others) and never reached 200°F even with extended traffic delays (long lights). If you stayed moving, it would typically hang @ 180°F.

I didn't want to cut this filter test short ..but I also don't want to give tainted data that would be misleading. I should be able to get a good bit of mileage on before the cold weather returns. I really want to do some endurance testing on the MC 5w-20 as well. It appears to be a suitable oil for this application for the duration of its current use.

The filter has approximately 4700 miles on it. This next filter will either confirm or discount if this filter was indeed loaded in such a duration of mileage. I would like to keep the 5w-20 in for at least 5k ..by then we should know if this filter is shot.

Any and all comments are welcome.

 

[ZR2RANDO]

You could still keep the old filter in use with the new oil. If it was actually "loaded up" to any degree it would build psid rapidly at that point...and you could possibly see some bypass action.....and then go ahead and put in a new filter.
As long as the filter is still functioning as normal filters do, there would be no problem with this. With new oil, there would not be much loading going on for the time being anyway.
4700 miles should not be much of a stress test for that filter...

 

[Ugly3]

So do you think it is the oil (with contamination) causing the increased PSID? Or do you think the filter is loaded with crud from the tear down?

 

[Filter guy]

and that coolant (only H20) made it past the rings.

This could swell paper media and effect the psid. If you know that water/coolant got into the lube system it can effect the media and add to the psid by swelling the media. Some of the water may still be in the filter ( if you haven't drained it yet.) You should know when you drain the oil out of the filter.

Which is why one does not use toilet rolls in by-passes. Just think what a roll of toilet paper would look like..

The resins in the media will protect the media from minute amounts of water. But the media will also absorb the water as well. It depends on how many ppm are present. If you know you have water/coolant in the oil..then that is to much for the media not to be effected.

If you let the filter set around before draining, the water will seperate from the oil over time.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

---

4700 miles should not be much of a stress test for that filter...

---

I agree. The part that bugs me is that it did a little jump right after the MC 5w-20 went in. The previous oils were in there such a short time after a triple Auto-Rx routine that they weren't even anything but clear on the stick. This just strikes me as odd. I don't know if it has anything to do with it being a semi-synth and some film disruption or what.

quote:

---

If it was actually "loaded up" to any degree it would build psid rapidly at that point...and you could possibly see some bypass action.....and then go ahead and put in a new filter.

---

This may work. Let's see if the potential liability of leaving the filter on with new oil is enough to worry about. I don't want to have to change the oil again just to clean up the crap that the filter (damaged or intact) would leave behind. Let's get a sensible consensus on this.

quote:

---

So do you think it is the oil (with contamination) causing the increased PSID? Or do you think the filter is loaded with crud from the tear down?

---

That I don't know. I can reason that there would be substantial Fe in the oil. Whether this stuff was big enough to effect an oil filter ..who knows? I DO KNOW that the cylinders had liquid (water) sitting in there for about a day (I came and wicked it out). Surely some of it got past the rings.

quote:

---

If you know you have water/coolant in the oil..then that is to much for the media not to be effected.

---

Well, we'll take it for granted that the filter was effected. It's apparent in the readings. What is your opinion of the integrity of the filter after enduring this insult?

 

[ZR2RANDO]

My money would say it will look fine. Being as you are specifically gauged up to be testing psid here, I'd give it a chance to perform (for a short term here anyway) for the crowd so-to-speak, then take it off and cut it up. It'd be interesting to see it's behavior on the gauges with some time on it...
I'm kinda surprised the mechanic didn't take it off and toss it when he did the work though...

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

---

I'm kinda surprised the mechanic didn't take it off and toss it when he did the work though...

---

He asked me about it. I told him what was going on. He didn't seem all that interested other than a casual comment..but didn't shake his head like most motor heads do. They tend to assume that if it isn't on a race car/street rod ..and they have deemed it necessary ..that it's a billy rig. These are the same guys that can never get in the money at the track

I'm more than happy to leave it be. I just wouldn't want the subsequent data to be misinterpretted as "normal". I don't think a filter would see increases in PSID all of a sudden. I mean I doubt that it would be linear in its increase ..but I wouldn't expect it to be abrupt and sizable. I've jumped from 2-3 psid over 8 psid since the MC 5w-20 went in ..and that wasn't that long ago mileage wise. I believe it has only been in there for about 1000 miles.


If I do swap out the filter, I'll just keep it intact and save it in a plastic bag for later installation. I've also got a filter from Ugly with 9k on it that's gong to go on at some point.

 

[Winston]

Interesting comment from FG regarding water contaminating the filter and causing the high pressure drop. Sounds very plausible.

 

[Filter guy]

Gary;

As you didn't see a change downward in PSID..back to 2 or less, i'd say the filter element is still intact. Otherwise the media could have disintegrated ( i've actualy seen that caused by coolant/water) or worse case a collapsed situation depending on the crud on the element at the time.

 

[Ugly3]

After considerable thought here is my recommendation:

Change the oil and the filter to new ones, effectivly start the filter milage test over. We have more time than money and the results won't be tainted with "maybe this" and "maybe that".

I would prefer you ran a "normal" oil viscosity(5w30, 10w30, etc.) as you are supposed to be testing filter bypass action in the real world. You have already demonstrated the van will run just fine on 5w20, 15w40, and 20w50 (IIRC).

I now have a Mobil 1 filter with 12,000 miles on it (Mobil 1 5w30). 7,000 of the miles were hiway miles, the rest are primarily "around town" miles with little stop and go city miles.

 

[Filter guy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ugly3:


I now have a Mobil 1 filter with 12,000 miles on it (Mobil 1 5w30). 7,000 of the miles were hiway miles, the rest are primarily "around town" miles with little stop and go city miles.

---

But leaving it in the trunk of the car doesn't count...