filter micron size
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I think oil filters are 9-10 microns for the most part. I suspect that the additives are smaller than that.
I would suspect the oil engineers have already thought of this...
I would suspect the oil engineers have already thought of this...
As it turns out, oil filters vary tremendously in their filtration ability. Some only have a nominal filtration (i.e., 50% removal) of particles 40 microns and larger. These are not very good filters.
Other oil filters have what is considered absolute efficiency (98.67% removal) at particle levels as small as 15 microns. These are very good filters.
Additive molecules are very small. Their molecular size is measured in nanometers and picometers. A nanometer is 1/1,000 of a micron and a picometer is 1/1,000 of a nanometer. Additive molecules will not be filtered out by any oil filter.
Other oil filters have what is considered absolute efficiency (98.67% removal) at particle levels as small as 15 microns. These are very good filters.
Additive molecules are very small. Their molecular size is measured in nanometers and picometers. A nanometer is 1/1,000 of a micron and a picometer is 1/1,000 of a nanometer. Additive molecules will not be filtered out by any oil filter.
i learned 5u filters out additives though i don't understand why this is and i believe this is not true. i do feel there is no reason to have a filter that filters under 20u..flow is the number one priorty.i like 35u @ 100%....15u filters rob you of flow....very restrictive and inc in psid..my opinion..and paper filters are naturally restrictive and let through 200u particles when media expands....this is my opinion...the above statement 5u might apply to mos2 inorganic moly which i would never ever use in my engines!!
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Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
i learned 5u filters out additives though i don't understand why this is and i believe this is not true. i do feel there is no reason to have a filter that filters under 20u..flow is the number one priorty.i like 35u @ 100%....15u filters rob you of flow....very restrictive and inc in psid..my opinion..and paper filters are naturally restrictive and let through 200u particles when media expands....this is my opinion.
I guess that labels you a.....FRAMMAN!
i learned 5u filters out additives though i don't understand why this is and i believe this is not true. i do feel there is no reason to have a filter that filters under 20u..flow is the number one priorty.i like 35u @ 100%....15u filters rob you of flow....very restrictive and inc in psid..my opinion..and paper filters are naturally restrictive and let through 200u particles when media expands....this is my opinion.
I guess that labels you a.....FRAMMAN!
nottttttttttttttttttttttt.....lol..i am a stainless steel filter man...
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Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
i learned 5u filters out additives. i feel there is no reason to have a filter that filters under 20u..flow is the number one priorty....imho..i like 35u @ 100%....15u filters rob you of flow....very restrictive and inc in psid..my opinion..and paper filters are naturally restrictive and let through 200u particles when media expands..
+1
I always heard that a good filter will only filter down to 20-15 microns. That's what most filter manufacturers shoot for it looks like.
i learned 5u filters out additives. i feel there is no reason to have a filter that filters under 20u..flow is the number one priorty....imho..i like 35u @ 100%....15u filters rob you of flow....very restrictive and inc in psid..my opinion..and paper filters are naturally restrictive and let through 200u particles when media expands..
+1
I always heard that a good filter will only filter down to 20-15 microns. That's what most filter manufacturers shoot for it looks like.
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
i learned 5u filters out additives though i don't understand why this is and i believe this is not true. i do feel there is no reason to have a filter that filters under 20u..flow is the number one priorty.i like 35u @ 100%....15u filters rob you of flow....very restrictive and inc in psid..my opinion..and paper filters are naturally restrictive and let through 200u particles when media expands....this is my opinion.
I guess that labels you a.....FRAMMAN!
boxcartommie....I see you use a K&N and a Bosch DP on two of your vehicles.....seems like thats a little overkill based on the above statement.
For you....a Purolator Classic might just work fine...and save you a few $$$ as well.
___________________________________________
03 Ford Focus (2.3L Duratec PZEV) / 99K
Pennzoil Platinum 5w20 / Purolator PureOne / OCI: 8,000 +/-
Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
i learned 5u filters out additives though i don't understand why this is and i believe this is not true. i do feel there is no reason to have a filter that filters under 20u..flow is the number one priorty.i like 35u @ 100%....15u filters rob you of flow....very restrictive and inc in psid..my opinion..and paper filters are naturally restrictive and let through 200u particles when media expands....this is my opinion.
I guess that labels you a.....FRAMMAN!
boxcartommie....I see you use a K&N and a Bosch DP on two of your vehicles.....seems like thats a little overkill based on the above statement.
For you....a Purolator Classic might just work fine...and save you a few $$$ as well.
___________________________________________
03 Ford Focus (2.3L Duratec PZEV) / 99K
Pennzoil Platinum 5w20 / Purolator PureOne / OCI: 8,000 +/-
Quite frankly, I don't care what particular 'number' is being put in my face as the sale point(that is all it is gentlemen), as all filters grab particles of different sizes, some more efficient at smaller particles than others.
For instance, Amsoil could claim 99%(..?) at 20u micron, but how would that 'sound' better than a P1? Purolator marketing/sales pitch had the foothold 1st. Amsoil's 'general' sales pitch typically includes the "absolute efficiency" sales pitch/marketing at 15u micron sized particles(they 98.7%...noticed rounded up to the higher sounding number lol!), instead of just repeating what Purolator used for it's slogan in marketing the PureONE.
That's it.
By the way, it's virtually impossible to filter out all of the MoS2 in Lubro Moly's additive. I'll have a sample and subsequent UOA at the end of my interval this fall/winter. If my filter hasn't filtered to bypass mode/max by then and the ppm of moly come up as spiked as anticipated, I'd safely say the Amsoil EaO I'm using didn't filter to max due to filtering 'too well'.
That would include the dread(from cautious ones) of grabbing up the MoS2(which I believe the largest particles they utilize are still under 2u micron).
A particle count shows how much of each particle size are in the used oil too, maybe that's worth a test as well.
It's all just a cleaver choice in sales pitch, some choose to create doubt in a different way(justifying the use of a moderately efficient oil filter...it flows better than those 'restrictive' filters)...that may be or may not be. The sales pitch doesn't = your application, by default anyway.
A RP, on the other hand, is supposedly great flow and filtration.
Marketing wins again!
For instance, Amsoil could claim 99%(..?) at 20u micron, but how would that 'sound' better than a P1? Purolator marketing/sales pitch had the foothold 1st. Amsoil's 'general' sales pitch typically includes the "absolute efficiency" sales pitch/marketing at 15u micron sized particles(they 98.7%...noticed rounded up to the higher sounding number lol!), instead of just repeating what Purolator used for it's slogan in marketing the PureONE.
That's it.
By the way, it's virtually impossible to filter out all of the MoS2 in Lubro Moly's additive. I'll have a sample and subsequent UOA at the end of my interval this fall/winter. If my filter hasn't filtered to bypass mode/max by then and the ppm of moly come up as spiked as anticipated, I'd safely say the Amsoil EaO I'm using didn't filter to max due to filtering 'too well'.
That would include the dread(from cautious ones) of grabbing up the MoS2(which I believe the largest particles they utilize are still under 2u micron).
A particle count shows how much of each particle size are in the used oil too, maybe that's worth a test as well.
It's all just a cleaver choice in sales pitch, some choose to create doubt in a different way(justifying the use of a moderately efficient oil filter...it flows better than those 'restrictive' filters)...that may be or may not be. The sales pitch doesn't = your application, by default anyway.
A RP, on the other hand, is supposedly great flow and filtration.
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whats a bosch dp i hate bosch!!!all k&n airfilters here..what does that have to do with oil filters? i love overkill though..i don't pay for oil filters...
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Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
A RP, on the other hand, is supposedly great flow and filtration.
Marketing wins again!
In today's world of law suits, you can bet that if a company says a filter is xx.x% @ y microns based on z and tested per ISO abc, then it probably is. If it wasn't, some other competing company could easily come in and claim false advertising.
I bet the major filter companies buy each others filers and go test them per the stated test specs to see if they are true or false for this very reason.
A RP, on the other hand, is supposedly great flow and filtration.
In today's world of law suits, you can bet that if a company says a filter is xx.x% @ y microns based on z and tested per ISO abc, then it probably is. If it wasn't, some other competing company could easily come in and claim false advertising.
I bet the major filter companies buy each others filers and go test them per the stated test specs to see if they are true or false for this very reason.
you are right on itslimjim!!! the companies don't tell you the big particles that get through either..and my stainless steel goes through the iso stuff too....faa aproved too.
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
A RP, on the other hand, is supposedly great flow and filtration.
Marketing wins again!
In today's world of law suits, you can bet that if a company says a filter is xx.x% @ y microns based on z and tested per ISO abc, then it probably is. If it wasn't, some other competing company could easily come in and claim false advertising.
I bet the major filter companies buy each others filers and go test them per the stated test specs to see if they are true or false for this very reason.
That wasn't my point. My point was this:
Each brand has a lineup and they market differently to sound better than another(of course this isn't challenging their choice of slogan as true or false, I wasn't claiming that).
It's all a means to get any consumer to buy into what they are selling. A P1 and another filter ( insert brand here) may each filter 99% at 20 microns. Still, what filter do you think of when you hear the phrase, "99% at 20 micron"? The competing brand has their own slogan for other reasons, outside of just what they are capable of doing. It's all spun and said in a different way.
Some are about reliable minimal filtration(guaranteed to be enough and wont restrict your engine or cause oil starvation etc), others are about their outstanding filtration and overall construction(get the absolute best protection here etc).
One is spun to put another down, it goes both ways as the idea is to manipulate(kinda evil sounding..."convince") the consumer into literally "buying into" the prospective and line of thinking that their filter is sold under the premise of.
That's why the BITOG site exists and breathes dynamically, because people want to know the truth and not just the sales pitch. THEN have the practice to using such knowledge(generally speaking though it may be) to decide what they feel is best for their apps, etc...but the idea is to be informed or to help inform others. I'm all for trying to reason around a subject respectfully of others.
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
A RP, on the other hand, is supposedly great flow and filtration.
In today's world of law suits, you can bet that if a company says a filter is xx.x% @ y microns based on z and tested per ISO abc, then it probably is. If it wasn't, some other competing company could easily come in and claim false advertising.
I bet the major filter companies buy each others filers and go test them per the stated test specs to see if they are true or false for this very reason.
That wasn't my point. My point was this:
Each brand has a lineup and they market differently to sound better than another(of course this isn't challenging their choice of slogan as true or false, I wasn't claiming that).
It's all a means to get any consumer to buy into what they are selling. A P1 and another filter ( insert brand here) may each filter 99% at 20 microns. Still, what filter do you think of when you hear the phrase, "99% at 20 micron"? The competing brand has their own slogan for other reasons, outside of just what they are capable of doing. It's all spun and said in a different way.
Some are about reliable minimal filtration(guaranteed to be enough and wont restrict your engine or cause oil starvation etc), others are about their outstanding filtration and overall construction(get the absolute best protection here etc).
One is spun to put another down, it goes both ways as the idea is to manipulate(kinda evil sounding..."convince") the consumer into literally "buying into" the prospective and line of thinking that their filter is sold under the premise of.
That's why the BITOG site exists and breathes dynamically, because people want to know the truth and not just the sales pitch. THEN have the practice to using such knowledge(generally speaking though it may be) to decide what they feel is best for their apps, etc...but the idea is to be informed or to help inform others. I'm all for trying to reason around a subject respectfully of others.
you are right on itslimjim!!! the companies don't tell you the big particles that get through either..and my stainless steel filters goes through the iso stuff too....faa aproved!!when i look into the oil filter cap and see oil literaly rushing down the gally i love knowing iam getting oil where its supposed to go super fast.. paper filters or any type of paper media does not.thats proof enough for me and after the car been driving for hrs the hot oil feel smooth as silk and not that gritty feeling iam so thankful for BITOG..aren't we all excentric here....lol
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Oh, if only stainless steel were available for my app.
I don't know much regarding those, though, quite honestly.
I don't know much regarding those, though, quite honestly.
LOL
boxcartommie....since your signatue stated K&N....I thought that was your oil filter (not your air filter).....so...what oil filter are you using on those 3 vehicles ?
Just curious....
Just curious....
Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
whats a bosch dp i hate bosch!!!...
????
whats a bosch dp i hate bosch!!!...
????
ok. iam using k&p engineering's stainless steel micronic oil filter..if interested the website is good.
Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
ok. iam using k&p engineering's stainless steel micronic oil filter..if interested the website is good.
I think that a K&N is a bit 'Overkill'....based on what you posted regarding micron size etc.
If your going to 'walk the walk'....then why don't you use the cheapest filter available ?
ok. iam using k&p engineering's stainless steel micronic oil filter..if interested the website is good.
I think that a K&N is a bit 'Overkill'....based on what you posted regarding micron size etc.
If your going to 'walk the walk'....then why don't you use the cheapest filter available ?
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