FILTER change poll...run em' twice???

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Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I bought a 1994 Dodge Ram 1500 and it actually said in the owners manual, to only change the oil filter every other oil change. This was the 5.9 V8. I never did, I changed it everytime. But I remmember reading that and thinking how dumb, must have been a ploy to keep dealer serviced vehicle costs down. Still first and only time I ever saw that.


I've got a '73 Cadillac and the owners manual says to change the oil every 4 months or 6000 miles under normal operating conditions and every 2 months or 3000 miles under severe operating conditions.

It also says after the first oil change to change the filter EVERY OTHER oil change. I thought this really strange since the engines they put in them are designed to run extremely hot for an engine of that era (200-240 degrees) and the oil technology back then wasn't anything like it is now.

I don't see how an oil back then could handle that much heat for that many miles and still have any viscosity left. I've always changed the filter every oil change but I'm cutting costs these days so I'll be changing it every other oil change with 3000 OCI's since i have switched back to dino after using synthetic for the last 80,000 miles.
 
Originally Posted By: Trvlr500
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I bought a 1994 Dodge Ram 1500 and it actually said in the owners manual, to only change the oil filter every other oil change. This was the 5.9 V8. I never did, I changed it everytime. But I remmember reading that and thinking how dumb, must have been a ploy to keep dealer serviced vehicle costs down. Still first and only time I ever saw that.


I've got a '73 Cadillac and the owners manual says to change the oil every 4 months or 6000 miles under normal operating conditions and every 2 months or 3000 miles under severe operating conditions.

It also says after the first oil change to change the filter EVERY OTHER oil change. I thought this really strange since the engines they put in them are designed to run extremely hot for an engine of that era (200-240 degrees) and the oil technology back then wasn't anything like it is now.

I don't see how an oil back then could handle that much heat for that many miles and still have any viscosity left. I've always changed the filter every oil change but I'm cutting costs these days so I'll be changing it every other oil change with 3000 OCI's since i have switched back to dino after using synthetic for the last 80,000 miles.


Right, the "owner's manual" from 1973 is going to be able to predict advances in oil technology by 2010? That thing is useless for OCI in 2010 -- ignore it!! Base your OCIs on your driving style, type of oil used (GrpII, III, etc) and condition of the engine (leaks oil, burns oil) and forget that useless 36 year old "manual."

Oil has changed alot in 36 years !!
 
Yes, I'm well aware of that. My intention was to point out to the other poster that there are other owners manuals that have said to change the oil filter every other oil change.

I was also trying to point out that if they were instructing us to change the filter every other oil change back in 1973 then with today's technology it is probably just fine to do the same with the oil filters we have today.

I will say one thing. There is no way ANY synthetic no matter who's you use will go 10,000 miles in the Caddy. It's carbureted and with the short trip operation I do in it these days at temps down to 0 degrees I wouldn't have the intestinal fortitude to try a 10,000 mile OCI. Even in warm weather.

I went 6000 miles on Mobil 1 TDT 5-40 and then decided to change it. It stunk to high heaven. I've never done an analysis because I think it's a waste of money but I just might in the future.

A rancid nasty stench coming from the oil is a good sign it's done for. I can only imagine the amount of fuel that gets dumped into the oil on a 0 degree day while it is warming up and then only driven 6 miles.

But this thread is supposed to be about Oil Filters so I won't continue to highjack it.
 
Quote:
Ok - here's my last question for all of you who're willing or tempted to go two or more OCI's on one filter; Baring the use of the dreaded Fram or cheapo STP (Super Tech??? - feel free to chime in w/others), DOES THE BRAND REALLY MATTER? I don't have any way of knowing if the M1 filter in question is any better or worse than a Bosch, Wix, Mann, Mahle, Hastings, Baldwin (prev two being difficult to find) or even the std white Purolator Plus many of us use. Assuming a 5k oci (within a reasonable time span) on a clean running engine, are all "good" quality oil filters safe candidates for re-use?


Any. It's not the filter, per se~, it's the service profile that dictates the sensibility of using it twice. Reread Sindney's post (and if you care to, mine as well).

The filter has a given holding capacity. 8-12gms of material. That's it. You're not lasting a given mileage. You're lasting a given material limit. The filter's life span will form a curve. A lower efficiency filter or a higher efficiency filter will form like curves over the same span if their holding capacity is gauged properly with their efficiency level.



Just about any filter will make 15k under OEM spec's IF the service profile is conducive to going 15k. A 15k-25k filter will NOT make 15k if the service is NOT conducive to 15k FCI's and filled with 100% fuel enriched service.

Everyone needs to get away from mileage outside of the tendency of higher annual mileage usage almost assures that the vast majority of the mileage is in a non-insoluble producing state.


The filter lifespan is not in question.
 
You have 17 filters on hand for a car that gets its oil changed every 3 years and you are thinking about using the same filter? Seems like you have enough filters to last 51 years on that one car! If you changed it every other oil change you could go 102 years on your supply! That sounds like the way to go to me!
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Everyone needs to get away from mileage outside of the tendency of higher annual mileage usage almost assures that the vast majority of the mileage is in a non-insoluble producing state.


The filter lifespan is not in question.


What????
21.gif
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Originally Posted By: saaboc
Gary Allan said:
Quote:


Everyone needs to get away from mileage outside of the tendency of higher annual mileage usage almost assures that the vast majority of the mileage is in a non-insoluble producing state.


The filter lifespan is not in question.


What????
21.gif




Okay ..two daily drivers. One has a 6 mile commute 2X daily, the other 35 2x daily.

How many miles does either car have in fuel enrichment ..the time that you produce most of your filter loading insolubles?


Let's for the moment, and just for demonstration purposes, say that 6 miles just happens to be the point where both engines can go into closed loop and out of cold start fuel enrichment.

Keep in mind that we're looking at it from the filter's perspective. Which one sees more material than the other??
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Sorry to be crass, but if you actually cut open some filters and inspected them, your opinion counts a little more.

In the Astra, the cartridge filters are $10. So I changed the original oem oil out, draining it out over the old filter outside to wash it clean. Put it back in and refilled with clean fresh oil. I will do the same one more time, since these are very short ocis. Afterwards, I plan on 6 month synth ocis, using the new filters for a year.


Well, you weren't crass as much as making assumptions.
I've had dozens of cars and motorcycles over 25+ years of driving.
I went through the cutting open of and otherwise examing filters, etc in the '90s.
I NEVER said a filter could not do this - what I said - and I what I do is to change every time as it's worth - to me - to not have to worry or examine my filters for $5 every 7k miles.
To each their own - if this site is only about trying to convince others to do things someone's way, then I won't bother posting.
If it's about discussing, I'm in!
 
Originally Posted By: PurplePride
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Sorry to be crass, but if you actually cut open some filters and inspected them, your opinion counts a little more.



Well, you weren't crass as much as making assumptions.
I've had dozens of cars and motorcycles over 25+ years of driving.
I went through the cutting open of and otherwise examing filters, etc in the '90s.
I NEVER said a filter could not do this - what I said - and I what I do is to change every time as it's worth - to me - to not have to worry or examine my filters for $5 every 7k miles.
To each their own - if this site is only about trying to convince others to do things someone's way, then I won't bother posting.
If it's about discussing, I'm in!


So you have no idea what's going on inside your filters, but think you know as well or better then people who do?

What about intrepreting beta ratios, you have that down pat too or more guesswork?
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

Okay ..two daily drivers. One has a 6 mile commute 2X daily, the other 35 2x daily.

How many miles does either car have in fuel enrichment ..the time that you produce most of your filter loading insolubles?


Let's for the moment, and just for demonstration purposes, say that 6 miles just happens to be the point where both engines can go into closed loop and out of cold start fuel enrichment.

Keep in mind that we're looking at it from the filter's perspective. Which one sees more material than the other??



Cut them open and compare.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: PurplePride
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Sorry to be crass, but if you actually cut open some filters and inspected them, your opinion counts a little more.



Well, you weren't crass as much as making assumptions.
I've had dozens of cars and motorcycles over 25+ years of driving.
I went through the cutting open of and otherwise examing filters, etc in the '90s.
I NEVER said a filter could not do this - what I said - and I what I do is to change every time as it's worth - to me - to not have to worry or examine my filters for $5 every 7k miles.
To each their own - if this site is only about trying to convince others to do things someone's way, then I won't bother posting.
If it's about discussing, I'm in!


So you have no idea what's going on inside your filters, but think you know as well or better then people who do?

What about intrepreting beta ratios, you have that down pat too or more guesswork?


Wow. Thanks for making the visits here as a new member so pleasurable. Really, thanks.
Is it that you didn't read my post? Or that you don't quite comprehend it's wording?
Hunker down in an online forum, make pals, and become a longtime member to jab new folks?
Sounds like not knowing what's in my filters is a good trade-off.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

Okay ..two daily drivers. One has a 6 mile commute 2X daily, the other 35 2x daily.

How many miles does either car have in fuel enrichment ..the time that you produce most of your filter loading insolubles?


Let's for the moment, and just for demonstration purposes, say that 6 miles just happens to be the point where both engines can go into closed loop and out of cold start fuel enrichment.

Keep in mind that we're looking at it from the filter's perspective. Which one sees more material than the other??



Cut them open and compare.


Let me ask you this:
Do you have any idea on how the flow-rates of your filters have changed with debris over two uses?
Assuming being below the filter's capacity to hold debris, how is the flow affected up to that point?
Do you have any data on that?
Thanks!
 
Sure, a simple example would be Audi oem filters, they are helpfully labeled "2yr/30,000km" on the side.

If I happened to change my oil at 14kkm, why should I change the filter....?

The fact my Honda's manual specs oil change at 10k miles and filter at 20k, that has no meaning to you?

At some point, you have to put faith in oem's test data, yes?
 
Not sure about this, but I think there has been some friction on this thread possibly because of a forum feature. If you don't specify who your response is directed to, it automatically indicates your comment is to the previous poster, which it may not be.
 
Originally Posted By: PurplePride

Wow. Thanks for making the visits here as a new member so pleasurable. Really, thanks.
Is it that you didn't read my post? Or that you don't quite comprehend it's wording?
Hunker down in an online forum, make pals, and become a longtime member to jab new folks?
Sounds like not knowing what's in my filters is a good trade-off.


Quit breaking your purple pills in half.
thankyou2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Sure, a simple example would be Audi oem filters, they are helpfully labeled "2yr/30,000km" on the side.

If I happened to change my oil at 14kkm, why should I change the filter....?

The fact my Honda's manual specs oil change at 10k miles and filter at 20k, that has no meaning to you?

At some point, you have to put faith in oem's test data, yes?


Ohhhh. YOU don't have data - like you required from me, just your manual and the filter box?
Gotcha.
My window sticker said I'd get 30 MPG too.
I Don't.
My lights should last 10,000 hours at home - the box says so!
They didn't.
I don't want to argue - I can see you've got your spot here and I'm just a nOOb who will get smacked no matter what I say.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: saaboc
Gary Allan said:
Quote:


Everyone needs to get away from mileage outside of the tendency of higher annual mileage usage almost assures that the vast majority of the mileage is in a non-insoluble producing state.


The filter lifespan is not in question.


What????
21.gif




Okay ..two daily drivers. One has a 6 mile commute 2X daily, the other 35 2x daily.

How many miles does either car have in fuel enrichment ..the time that you produce most of your filter loading insolubles?


Let's for the moment, and just for demonstration purposes, say that 6 miles just happens to be the point where both engines can go into closed loop and out of cold start fuel enrichment.

Keep in mind that we're looking at it from the filter's perspective. Which one sees more material than the other??



errr....my head hurts. Never mind, I already put the 5k used filter back on w/fresh M1 10w/30. Hopefully my nxt oc will be before 2013. Thanks for contributing.

Ps - some of you nd to learn how to play nice
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I have never reused a oil filer in my life, but I am not one of those trying to max out oil and filter life. In the situation the OP discribed, there is a simple asnwer if it were me. Just spend $3-4 and change the filter. If I were going to reuse a filter I certainly would not use one that has actually been in-service for 3 years. Sitting on a shelf 3 years is nothing but sitting on a car full of oil for 3 years is something entirely different. Most people can perform a oil and filter change for around $20 and do so a few times a year. This type of thing is just not something that you really need to over overthink. If you begin to wonder if you need to change your oil and filter, you probably do.
 
Come on let's all get along.AJ, Purple Pride has as much a right to say his piece as anyone, including You!

Welcome Purple Pride, and don't be put of by this guy AJ. He's just a know it all and can't help himself. Purple Pride glad to have you participate.
 
Originally Posted By: PurplePride
I personally could not imagine letting a $5.00 filter sit through more than one change.
I use RP and a Pure One Gold. I'm sure my 7k OCI will curdle blood here, but for me, it took years to mentally get off the 3k OCIs.
Progress :)


I agree.. and my oci is right about the same as yours (give or take 500mi)

Welcome to the forum
 
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