Filling filters and Oil temps

[widman]

Just a couple of tips out of the Caterpillar maintenance course I'm taking:
1. Always change oil HOT.
2. Never bother to analyze oil that was sampled cold.
3. Never fill a new oil filter with oil before installing it (this puts unfiltered oil in the outlet side of the filter)
4. Never fill a new fuel filter with fuel before installing it (same reason as above)

 

[pscholte]

Widman,

I'm not foolish or arrogant enough to "take on" Caterpillar maintenance experts, but (3) surpises me. First, I would this saves on wear during first start after the change (maybe Caterpillar has determined that given the frequency of oil changes this is minor, although I would like to know if they are talking over the road type intervals which are typically much longer than automobile intervals). Second, what do they know about what's in virgin oil that it is a risk to send it through unfiltered; if it is not accidentally contaminated during the change process it should be good, no?

 

[mdv]

Wouldn't the majority of the new motor oil be unfiltered on the first pass anyway?

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,

Widman - I don't want to seem to be an expert on the field but while I agree with 1) and 2):
With 3 - I have done this for many years with a variety of vehicles - the period without oil pressure outweighs a small charge of "unfiltered" new oil.
If any of my service suppliers neglect to fill prime the oil filters I will fire them!
With 4 - How do you keep the diesel motor running?

Regards

 

[pscholte]

It should be filtered, unless the filter is in bypass due to cold, heavy oil. Sump--->through pump---->through filter---->to engine.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by widman:
3. Never fill a new oil filter with oil before installing it (this puts unfiltered oil in the outlet side of the filter)

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But that oil is fresh oil, it doesn't need to be filtered yet.

 

[Howard]

quote:

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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by widman:
3. Never fill a new oil filter with oil before installing it (this puts unfiltered oil in the outlet side of the filter)

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But that oil is fresh oil, it doesn't need to be filtered yet.

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....unless some contaminants have inadvertantly gotten into the oil stream. I have never filled an oil filter during a service and never plan to. I would rather be safe than sorry. Why add another weak point in your service procedure.

 

[Drew99GT]

It takes about 5-10 seconds for the pressure to come up on my Dad's 4.3L blazer if I don't prime the filter; takes about 3-5 seconds with it primed. Oil pressure is good; your probably getting more unfiltered oil to parts at a worse off time when starting an engine in sub zero temps because of the bypass valve!!

 

[mrchecker]

quote:

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Originally posted by Howard:
I have never filled an oil filter during a service and never plan to. I would rather be safe than sorry. Why add another weak point in your service procedure.

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On a car I see this as a matter of personal preference, there's not that much oil in a filter. I like to prefill them, you might not. But on an engine like a Cat, there's 2 or 3 quarts in the filter. That makes me a heck of a lot more nervous than "dirty" oil straight from the bottle.

 

[mrchecker]

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug Hillary:
Hi,

Widman - I don't want to seem to be an expert on the field but while I agree with 1) and 2):
With 3 - I have done this for many years with a variety of vehicles - the period without oil pressure outweighs a small charge of "unfiltered" new oil.
If any of my service suppliers neglect to fill prime the oil filters I will fire them!
With 4 - How do you keep the diesel motor running?

Regards

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Hear, hear! - in regards to #3. As to #4, you have to pump the primer a lot to fill the new filter.

I have seen this recommended on diesel boards I frequent as well. I see their point on this one, injection pumps have very fine tolerances, but I'm too lazy to pump the primer that much. Besides, my service manual says to fill the filter before installation - who am I to argue if it saves me all that pumping?

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
MrChecker - My 60 Series Detroits ( @500hp) have always been prime filled - both oil and fuel filters. In excess of 1.2 million kms at sale, we never replaced any injectors. Well "never" - we have replaced one injector - in 1996 - in a DDEC 2 engine - a collective 8 or 9 million kms ago.
These engines always start first crank on primed fuel filters and full oil pressure is up within a few engine revs.
The engine would be a real problem without primed fuel filters at replacement - each 40000 kms
I contract out my scheduled service needs to major Service Providers and it is absolute common practice to prime fill filters. Regardless of engine make or model

Regards

 

[widman]

It's part of the Cat presentation, with the argument that the oil can be contaminated by funnels or nozzles. I just thought I would bas it along.
(The oil that goes to the Turbo on startup does not pass through the filter)

 

[Jim Spahr]

I would disagree on the concern about 'unfiltered oil' in our cars and light trucks. Other concerns are more important, like getting fresh oil to the engine ASAP and not losing oil pump prime. BTW I recommend only fill a new filter 1/2 to 2/3 full, not to the brim.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim Spahr:
I would disagree on the concern about 'unfiltered oil' in our cars and light trucks. Other concerns are more important, like getting fresh oil to the engine ASAP and not losing oil pump prime. BTW I recommend only fill a new filter 1/2 to 2/3 full, not to the brim.

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Why is that? I would think having it totally full would be the best way to do it, and on vertical mount filters I do just that. One sideways filters I only fill it a little bit though, so it won't spill out when I turn it sideways.

 

[DockHoliday]

Regarding the oil starvation caused by not priming the filter. If the oil is changed "hot", then the various engine parts are already covered in oil. Would the brief period of time of oil starvation actually incur any wear?

 

[mrchecker]

I just picked up a set of Donaldson fuel and oil filters for my Cummins powered Dodge. On the filters they have cute little picture instructions for those who don't know what to do with a filter and can't read, either.

First picture shows filter being filled with oil (fuel on the fuel filter). Second picture shows gasket being lubricated with oil. Third picture shows that you put the filter on clockwise.

Fourth picture shows to go 3/4 turn past gasket contact. You'd think a filter company would be worried about unfiltered oil or fuel, but Donaldson seems to encourage what Cat says is a no-no. BTW, I don't want anybody who needs picture instructions on an oil filter working on anything I own.

 

[cousincletus]

If you don't fill the fuel filter, you'll end up using a lot of ether to fire the motor back up. Just make sure you use a clean container to fill the filter up with.
I learned back in trade school (although 25+ years ago) to fill the oil filter with fresh oil because if you don't, the oil pump may lose its prime momentarily. Not to mention a dry start.
Therefore, best advice I can give you is to ignore #3 and 4.

 

[terryr]

I was at a supermarket and noticed the brooms had cards attached. Honest to God, they were instructions on how to use a broom!

 

[JohnBrowning]

I too have to strongly disagree with number 3. I think that they are concerned with contamination. If you guys could see some of the insane storage methods for bulk oil. My Father in law has alot of 55 gallon drums with the cap off in his 200x200 tool shed! THe doors are all open and it is in dusty country enviroment. I have seen 55 gallon drums were the guys would yank the hand powered pump out and sit it in the corner. Then when they needed it they would drag it to the next drum through it in and start pumping! I have seen drums with water on top of the drum and some nuckle head opens it up with the water and all dripping in !!! I have seen dead rodents and even metal shaveinging in drums of oil. Alot of Farmers, Grease Monkeys, and hired hands are oblivious(sp) to proper bulk oil storage and contamination issues!!!! So while I disagree with CAT I can see where they are comeing from!

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by mrchecker:
I just picked up a set of Donaldson fuel and oil filters for my Cummins powered Dodge. On the filters they have cute little picture instructions for those who don't know what to do with a filter and can't read, either.

First picture shows filter being filled with oil (fuel on the fuel filter). Second picture shows gasket being lubricated with oil. Third picture shows that you put the filter on clockwise.

Fourth picture shows to go 3/4 turn past gasket contact. You'd think a filter company would be worried about unfiltered oil or fuel, but Donaldson seems to encourage what Cat says is a no-no. BTW, I don't want anybody who needs picture instructions on an oil filter working on anything I own.

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The last trailer ball I bought had 10 installation instructions. Yes, 10 for the process of installing the ball and tightening the nut the correct amount.

These are the people who drop bread crumbs to find their way home...