Falken Sincera...Michelin Clone.

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My Honda Fit is hard to get tires for when I need them 185 55 16.. usually have to be ordered so I usually buy a set ahead of time. The car came with Dunlops which i have gotten a couple of knots and flats.. so I switched to Michelin Premier a/s. Tires are wearing well but they were expensive (about $140 each at the time i bought them).

I did a search to find something decent and came upon the Falken Sincera.

Falken- 80000 mile warranty. Treadwear 720 $63 each

Michelin 60000 mile warranty. Treadwear 640 $135 each

Side by side they are exact clones.

Have not installed them yet.
 
What do you mean that they're exact clones? Are they rebranded? I wouldn't think so since Falken is a Sumitomo owned tire.

Looking at pictures online, they aren't identical, the sipes on the center three tread blocks are ridged in the Michelin. I'm not a tire expert, but I'd say that two tires looking similar doesn't mean they're the same or that they'll perform similarly.

But [censored], at less than half the price, that's hard to pass up. A quick search on Tire Rack shows the Altimax RT43 for $80 each, a well regarded value tire.
 
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Comparing tread wear ratings between manufacturers is meaningless.


This is true.

Because the treadwear rating is just a comparison relative to tires made in the same brand.
The tire used as a reference point on different brand may not be exactly the same.
So different brand of tires will have different starting reference point.
 
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My two sets of Falkens were toast after 30k and 40k miles. my Michelins looked brand new after 30k. they are simply different tires at different price points. and yes, Falken, Ohtsu, and Sumitomo are from the same company.
 
Originally Posted By: JMJNet
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Comparing tread wear ratings between manufacturers is meaningless.


This is true.

Because the treadwear rating is just a comparison relative to tires made in the same brand.
The tire used as a reference point on different brand may not be exactly the same.
So different brand of tires will have different starting reference point.


Manufacturers are also not required to put exactly what the tire is compared to their "100" tire. It really is just a marketing gimmick.
 
For half price I’d bet they are about half as good... Of course my Michelins only have 68,800 miles on them so what would I know. I’m probably just one of those Michelin fan boys they keep talking about on here...
 
Originally Posted By: tomcat27
My two sets of Falkens were toast after 30k and 40k miles. my Michelins looked brand new after 30k. they are simply different tires at different price points. and yes, Falken, Ohtsu, and Sumitomo are from the same company.



What tires were they from Falken?
 
Lol..i knew i would catch [censored] but true they are not exact clones but dang close..you really have to look to tell the differences..i will snap some pics here later side by side.

For half the price im willing to give it a shot.
 
Falken Sincera- cheap Thai tire. Would that make it a Thaire?

Michelin Premier- made in South Carolina.

I know country of origin isn't of any consequence to a lot of younger folks, but it still speaks volumes to me. You'll maybe get 1/5th of the life of the Michelin out of the Falken- maybe- which means the Michelin would still be a better buy.

My advice would be to split the difference and get a great tire in that size for $90- Cooper CS3. The Cooper isn't quite as a smooth a ride as you would get from the Michelins, but you're driving a Honda Fit, so it's not quite like you need a Z-rated luxury tire.
 
I have the Falken Ziex ZE950 on my car, and they are awesome.

Remember that treadwear ratings cannot be compared across different companies' tires.

The popular General Altimax RT43 and Cooper CS5 Ultra are available in the size you need. The Yokohama Avid Ascend is also worth considering
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: BironDanmum
Falken Sincera- cheap Thai tire. Would that make it a Thaire?

Michelin Premier- made in South Carolina.

I know country of origin isn't of any consequence to a lot of younger folks, but it still speaks volumes to me. You'll maybe get 1/5th of the life of the Michelin out of the Falken- maybe- which means the Michelin would still be a better buy.

My advice would be to split the difference and get a great tire in that size for $90- Cooper CS3. The Cooper isn't quite as a smooth a ride as you would get from the Michelins, but you're driving a Honda Fit, so it's not quite like you need a Z-rated luxury tire.


I had some US made Fisks that disintegrated in 4 years. Your country of origin beliefs do not necessarily apply today. FYI, my cars have Falkens and Coopers ATM.
 
OP-you came on here and compared a second tier tire to Michelin.

Michelin tires roll on water here-there are wide spread reports of the new Michelin tires having dry rot problems (especially in the "sunbelt states") that the "blind believers" on here even refuse to acknowledge.

However- for the difference in cost-it worth taking a chance on the tires you are considering.
 
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Originally Posted By: JMJNet
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Comparing tread wear ratings between manufacturers is meaningless.


This is true.

Because the treadwear rating is just a comparison relative to tires made in the same brand.
The tire used as a reference point on different brand may not be exactly the same.
So different brand of tires will have different starting reference point.


Sorry, guys!

The treadwear rating is based on a comparison to the SRTT (Standard Reference Test Tire - and if I remember correctly, made by Michelin in a Uniroyal brand.) These tires are carefully made, carefully stored, and carefully monitored for consistency. Did I mention they are expensive and difficult to obtain by the average joe? They have to be requested from Michelin directly.

And while there are some interesting aspects to the rating, they can be compared between brands - that's the whole purpose of the rating.

So here are some interesting things about the UTQG treadwear rating:

It is based on a test run in Texas. There are at least 2 vehicles involved (one for the SRTT, the other for the target tire) - and because of the cost involved, usually a lot more. There is a prescribed route and must be basically dry when it is run. The route is over regular roads. It's about 10,000 miles in duration and the treadwear is extrapolated. (and, Yes, the test is expensive to run, which is why many of the tests are for quite a few different tires at the same time.)

The Feds can request the data used to determine the rating. (And I have been involved in one such inquiry.)

The test is not very precise and there is quite a bit of variation. For that reason, I use a 10% value for significance. In this case the difference is over 10%, so those tires are different.

But in the real world, actual tread life varies quite a bit - although, more or less along the lines of the UTQG ratings. But I have seen reversals of treadwear data based on differences in the paving material.
 
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Thanks for the info on that. Some tire sites do indicate that you cannot compare across brands or different tire applications, so it's helpful that you gave us more background on that.
 
Originally Posted By: BironDanmum
Falken Sincera- cheap Thai tire. Would that make it a Thaire?

Michelin Premier- made in South Carolina.

I know country of origin isn't of any consequence to a lot of younger folks, but it still speaks volumes to me. You'll maybe get 1/5th of the life of the Michelin out of the Falken- maybe- which means the Michelin would still be a better buy.

My advice would be to split the difference and get a great tire in that size for $90- Cooper CS3. The Cooper isn't quite as a smooth a ride as you would get from the Michelins, but you're driving a Honda Fit, so it's not quite like you need a Z-rated luxury tire.


And yet, the Falkens have a longer treadwear warranty. So, if they only go half as long...he gets another set under warranty!
 
Originally Posted By: CKN
OP-you came on here and compared a second tier tire to Michelin.

Michelin tires roll on water here-there are wide spread reports of the new Michelin tires having dry rot problems (especially in the "sunbelt states") that the "blind believers" on here even refuse to acknowledge.

However- for the difference in cost-it worth taking a chance on the tires you are considering.


Not the "sun belt". I work with two people who threw away very-expensive Michelins (Primacys on an Audi and LTX-AT on a Ram 2500) with plenty of tread because they were rotting off the rims...in Massachusetts! Both were told to pound sand, and neither will ever buy Michelin again.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle


And yet, the Falkens have a longer treadwear warranty. So, if they only go half as long...he gets another set under warranty!


That is not how tire warranties work.
 
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle


And yet, the Falkens have a longer treadwear warranty. So, if they only go half as long...he gets another set under warranty!


That is not how tire warranties work.


Correct. Anyone who has ever tried to collect on a treadwear warranty knows that it's pretty much a [censored] as to whether you'll get more than the standard 10 bucks per tire: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/tires/why-tread-life-warranties-are-next-to-useless

OP, do you want a cheap tire or do you want a long-lasting tire? Pick one, as you can't get both. If you're really leaning toward the Falken, it's probably no better or worse than any other budget tire on the market, so I would just find the cheapest priced tire in that size and be done with it. But as has been stated here previously don't expect it to be a clone of the Michelin.
 
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