Factory fills with M1
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That good.
My info came from the assistant brand manager for the F-Body when someone asked him that very question back in 2002. Thats also when the subject of when GM started to install Mobil 1 into the LS1 F-Body. Seems they did it around 2000 but supply problems halted it till around Sept/Oct of 2001 when the again started to install it Mobil 1 5W-30 in all LS1 F-bodys till the end of production. Thats Camaro and Firebirds.
Hey, did I mention he drove a Porsche 911 Turbo? He even would take a clean terry towel and wipe the rear of your pants, just to make sure there was no dirt on your a**. Gotta keep that leather clean.quote:
Originally posted by Bobert:
OMG!You couldn't pay me to wipe off the underside of my car.
Those folks are so picky they make us look like knuckle-dragging Neanderthals.
Ugh!
Jerry
Hi,
Patman I must say I agree with your comments generally on this subject
This is a good informative thread
Porsche once filled with Shell oil ( until about 1994-5 ) and I expect it was linked to their racing programme etc. Shell was the original fill commencing in the 1950's - I think VW used Shell then too
Porsche's first factory fill with a synthetic 5w-40 in 1992-3 was indeed Shell
It is now Mobil 1
In my experience with the Engineers at both Oil Company and Vehicle Manufacturing levels car and truck - both here and in Europe - I can tell you that much more than just the money is involved
The Technical interchange via Research & Development is truely staggering and far reaching. Both sides benefit and so do we
The Approval Lists that Euro Makers maintain is a product of that research
I have learned a few key things over 30 years involvement with synthetic engine oils;
1 - if you start a new car engine on synthetic after about 3kkms the engine# will usually quickly settle down*
2 - if you change out a factory fill oil and add a synthetic in under about 1.5kkms (or there abouts) the engine# may take up to 40kkms to settle down* ( diesels may take up to 80kkms )
3 - with Detroit Diesel's 12.7ltr engine I have found that changing to a synthetic oil ( Delvac 1 ) in under about 15kkms will give cause for unstable wear metal rates via UOA for up to 200kkms
Engines that are put on Delvac 1 after about 30kkms do not usually show wear metal instability for the next 1m+ kms
# depending on the engine and its metallurgy
* show quite stable wear metal rates and/or acceptable oil consumption
I believe that the factory fill of M1 involves a special M1 blend that enables a satisfactory "bedding down" without risk
Regards
Patman I must say I agree with your comments generally on this subject
This is a good informative thread
Porsche once filled with Shell oil ( until about 1994-5 ) and I expect it was linked to their racing programme etc. Shell was the original fill commencing in the 1950's - I think VW used Shell then too
Porsche's first factory fill with a synthetic 5w-40 in 1992-3 was indeed Shell
It is now Mobil 1
In my experience with the Engineers at both Oil Company and Vehicle Manufacturing levels car and truck - both here and in Europe - I can tell you that much more than just the money is involved
The Technical interchange via Research & Development is truely staggering and far reaching. Both sides benefit and so do we
The Approval Lists that Euro Makers maintain is a product of that research
I have learned a few key things over 30 years involvement with synthetic engine oils;
1 - if you start a new car engine on synthetic after about 3kkms the engine# will usually quickly settle down*
2 - if you change out a factory fill oil and add a synthetic in under about 1.5kkms (or there abouts) the engine# may take up to 40kkms to settle down* ( diesels may take up to 80kkms )
3 - with Detroit Diesel's 12.7ltr engine I have found that changing to a synthetic oil ( Delvac 1 ) in under about 15kkms will give cause for unstable wear metal rates via UOA for up to 200kkms
Engines that are put on Delvac 1 after about 30kkms do not usually show wear metal instability for the next 1m+ kms
# depending on the engine and its metallurgy
* show quite stable wear metal rates and/or acceptable oil consumption
I believe that the factory fill of M1 involves a special M1 blend that enables a satisfactory "bedding down" without risk
Regards
Patman
Staff member
Corvette aficianados will cringe when they see me finally owning a 97 Corvette in a couple of years, as I will drive it all year round, even in winter. So it'll be covered completely in salt from head to toe, just like my 95 Firebird Formula is right now. I have forgotten what color it is!quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyO:
I was going to post this in another thread but I'll do it here. Guy at another site I moderate once said, "They're machines fer crissakes, not holy relics!" Words to live by, not that I advocate improper maintenance or, gasp, letting it be dirty for longer than a day.
GM does not hot run all the motors. They use to hot run them all. THey got tired of paying disability to guys for a lifetime of being in a room filled with hot running eniges! You had to be able to hear them run so hearing protection could not be worn. They do random test engines froma a given lot like every 1000th engine for example.
Some places still spin test motor but with out fireing them up. You can spin an engine and check for compression, vaccum and knock in this fashion as well. Once the engine is fired up it is usualy being driven out to the stageing area with in 15-30 minutes. THe guys that drive them out to the large stageing area awaiting rail shiping drive them like they are being chased by the cops!! Between the run in time, emmission testing on dyno and the drive out to the stageing area they have plenty of time to evalute the engines performance! If it fails quality will set it aside and fix it later.
Some places still spin test motor but with out fireing them up. You can spin an engine and check for compression, vaccum and knock in this fashion as well. Once the engine is fired up it is usualy being driven out to the stageing area with in 15-30 minutes. THe guys that drive them out to the large stageing area awaiting rail shiping drive them like they are being chased by the cops!! Between the run in time, emmission testing on dyno and the drive out to the stageing area they have plenty of time to evalute the engines performance! If it fails quality will set it aside and fix it later.
Hi,
Buster - yes that is my practice now
I will keep the factory fill in car/light truck ( ute ) engines until about 3kkms. Then they are changed to synthetic
Car and Heavy Truck gearboxes/diffs are changed to synthetics ASAP after purchase and before 1kkms whenever possible. This is then a "lifetime" fill from this point
Heavy truck engines do two weeks or about 10kkms of normal hard work on their factory fill A "known performance" conforming mineral oil is used from that point until close to 30kkms
Delvac 1 is introduced then
Mobil have said that Delvac 1 can be used at or before the 10kkms point - and it probably can be - but my UOAs have shown a different story
And I'm naturally conservative anyway and I write the cheques!
This has worked for me for many years now
Regards
Buster - yes that is my practice now
I will keep the factory fill in car/light truck ( ute ) engines until about 3kkms. Then they are changed to synthetic
Car and Heavy Truck gearboxes/diffs are changed to synthetics ASAP after purchase and before 1kkms whenever possible. This is then a "lifetime" fill from this point
Heavy truck engines do two weeks or about 10kkms of normal hard work on their factory fill A "known performance" conforming mineral oil is used from that point until close to 30kkms
Delvac 1 is introduced then
Mobil have said that Delvac 1 can be used at or before the 10kkms point - and it probably can be - but my UOAs have shown a different story
And I'm naturally conservative anyway and I write the cheques!
This has worked for me for many years now
Regards
Chevy Corvette's come factory-fill with Mobil 1. VW TDI and now PD comes factory fill with a synthetic like Castrol SLX LongLife II 0W-30. Porsche, MB, BMW use Mobil 1 0W-40.
Motors are a lot different than +20 years ago. Different finish on cylinders, different rings, etc. At one time "break in" was a long and arduous process: slow speeds and complicated procedures for the first 5,000 miles, careful with loads, etc, give me a break.
Back then, motors were assembled dry and shipped to the car assembly plant to mate to the frame. This was usually the first time they were started. I shudder to even think of it.
HD diesel motors at rebuild shops like Cummins also use dyno stands to run-in the motor, usually at max load. I know that Cummins recommends max load or the rings won't seat properly and you'll use lot of oil and have short motor life: do NOT baby it.
Most motors now are run-in on dyno's at the engine assembly plant, primarily for QC purposes and also for emissions. A "green" motor usually burns a lot of oil until the rings seat, and this would quickly destroy O2 sensors and catalytic converters. You would never meet OBD2 emissions and certainly not CA emissions if the thing had visible oil consumption.
If you break-in the motor with regular 10W-30 on an engine dyno stand for an hour or so, it should be good to go: say 30 minutes at 2,500 RPM and moderate load. Change the oil and filter. Then 30 minutes at 3,500 RPM and heavy load. Change the oil and filter again.
If you bench build but don't run in the motor, I don't see how ANY synthetic will allow the rings to seat. Here is what GMPP (General Motors Performance Parts) recommends for their crate motors without dyno break-in:
1. Fill with regular 10W-30 and prime oil system.
2. Start motor and run at 2,500 RPM and no-load for 30 minutes. Change oil and filter.
3. Drive at varying speeds/loads for 30 miles.
4. Run 6 medium-throttle runs to 5,000 RPM, letting off in gear to coast down to 20 MPH after each pass.
5. Run 2 hard-throttle runs to 5,000 RPM, letting off in gear to coast down to 20 MPH after each pass.
6. Change oil and filter to 10W-40 non synthetic.
7. Drive normally for next 500 miles under varying loads and speeds, no constant or extended speeds, no heavy loads, not over 5,000 RPM.
8. Change oil and filter, using synthetic if you wish. Drive as you normally would.
Actually, I know a guy in St. George Utah who bought new a 2001 Corvette and he rods the bejeezus out of it. Oil consumption 1 qt every 4,600 miles using Mobil 1 10W-30.
GM does not do this, the test the engine using water pressure to be sure of integrity but the first time the engine is ever fired is on the assembly line when the car is born and it goes thru emissions at the end of the assembly line. Been there and seen it done, from the time the engine was born on the line to when it when to the dyno it took about 15 minutes, all the while the car is running, car is fired, systems are checked, driven off line to front end alignment, then off to the dyno for brake and other system checks, here the car is run up to 70mph for a set time and then off to water testing.
This info is from GM...
[ January 25, 2004, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Mike ]
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