F/P long term use

[Rat407]

Let me see if I can put this in an understandable way. Does it hurt to run F/P in every tank 100% of the time? Now with that in mind, wouldn't the consentration of the mix be getting stronger and stronger with each fill up?
OK now to try and explain, say you have a 20 gallon tank, you put in 4 oz at each fill up. The average person does not drain the tank completely to the next fill up so you have about 3 or 4 gallons in the tank with a F/P mix already in there. Time to fill up again, and down with 4 more oz of F/P. So now that mixes with the F/P that was in that 3 to 4 gallons. OK now you run that tank down, got the usual 3 to 4 gallons left in there again. You put in another 4 oz of F/P and top the tank back off. Run that tank down to 4 or so gallons, that mix of F/P is even stronger than the last. You add another 4 oz of F/P.

Does this make sense? Each time you fill up your adding to the strength of the mix of F/P that is left in each 4 gallons left over from the previous fill up? Wouldn't over time that get to a really concentrated mix? That is if you ran it in every tankfull and only ran down your tank to a 1/4 or so to leave that 3 to 4 gallons in there at each fill up.

Would this hurt anything or can it even be possible? Seems to me it can or am I just thinking to much into this process?

 

[n8wvi]

Yes, it will get more concentrated than the FIRST tankfull, but will get more and more concentrated at a slower rate, eventually leveling out. I'm not a math major, and I couldn't find a good definition of the word "asymptote", maybe a math wiz can check in and explain. Say your tank is 15 gallons. You add 3oz to the first tank. You use 12, fill up again adding 3oz again. 3oz in 12 gallons is MORE concentrated than your INITIAL fill. Am I making any sense? Did I mention i wasn't a math major?!?

Dave

 

[chefwong]

Why not just put in accordingly how much you fill up ? I currently use Redline at 2oz per 10 gallons. If I fill 20 gallons, then I'm putting in 4oz. However, if I'm just topping off the gas tank and it's only 15 gallons that I'm filling up, then I'm putting 3oz. I'm still keeping the same ratio depending on how much gas I'm putting in.

 

[shortyb]

I do this. I figure out how much fuel actually goes in during an average fill-up. I add FP accordingly. Since 95% of my fills are about the same each time (10 gallons) I just put in 2ozs., fill, and motor on. No worries about too much concentration over time. Rather worry about how long til the Hot-To-Go sign lights up at the Krispy Kreme

.

 

[novadude]

Rat407... I have been wondering the same thing. I decided I will skip the FP every 5 or 6 tankfuls, just for my own peace of mind.

 

[MolaKule]

I don't think you will get a buildup in concentration.

The important thing to remember is ratio of fuel to FP.

Let's say you fill up your tank with 20 gallons of fuel and add 4 oz. of FP. That's a ratio of 640:1 or so. You burn 10 gallons of fuel and fill up with ten gallons of fuel and 2 oz. of FP. The ratio of fuel to FP is still 640:1.

In testing (See LC/FP report) we have found that most fuel systems can tolerate a ratio as low as 125:1 intermittently. We do not advse you do that. This was a test to determine fuel system and combustion quality variables with lower ratios to determine limits. Using more FP than prescribed is just wasting the FP.

As long as you follow instructions and use the correct amount of FP with the amount of fuel you are replacing, you will not overdose your fuel system nor will you get out of sync..

[ February 06, 2004, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[greencrew]

No, the concentration won't add up, it's simple math if you look at it in the right way. If you are adding 1 oz per gallon then you add as many ozs as you add gallons.

On the first tank you fill up and start with 25 gallons, so you add 25 ozs. then next time you fill up it takes 21 gallons, so you add 21 ozs.

The gas in your tank is 4 gallons of gas and 4 oz of FP. The gass you added is 21 gallons of gas, and 21 oz of FP, the same ratio. When mixed together you get 25 gallons of gas and 25 oz FP.

The same math works for a 1 oz to 5 gallons ratio. Start with 25 gallons, and 5 oz FP. Next fill takes 20 gallons and you add 4 oz FP. In you tank you will have 5 gallons gas and 1 oz FP remaining.

OTOH, if you add 5 oz every time you fill with 20 gallons the concentration will never exceed 1 oz to 4 gallons, because that is the mix ratio of the new gas added with each fill.

Granted real life is more complicated because no two fill are the same. Research shows most of us fill up the day before bad weather is forcast.

 

[V10Ray]

Try keeping it straight with a 44 gallon tank in an excursion! I run my tank pretty dry. usually take between 35 & 40 gallons at a time. I always round up and put in the FP before the fill-up as they recommend in the instructions. Just as a side note I just did my 4th fill-up since I started using FP. According to my spreadsheet I'm seeing a slight improvement in gas mileage. The weather conditions and driving conditions have been pretty consistent since starting. You can see the spreadsheet at Mileage report

I bought 2 gallons and am trying to be as scientific about measuuring any improvements as I can.

Ray in NH

 

[novadude]

I think the point of this post was that no one measures EXACT amounts. If my fill-up takes 12.7 gallons of gasoline, I am going to add 3 oz of FP, which is slightly more than the recommended 1 oz / 5 gal. Keep doing this over time, and your FP in the tank becomes more and more concentrated. I don't think ANYONE meters out the exact right amount when filling thier tank. The only way to keep it correct is to limit fuel purchases to 5 gal increments.

 

[txmatt]

If y'all are that worried about the concentration increasing, just skip the FP during a fillup occasionally.

 

[greencrew]

quote:

---

Originally posted by novadude:
If my fill-up takes 12.7 gallons of gasoline, I am going to add 3 oz of FP, which is slightly more than the recommended 1 oz / 5 gal. Keep doing this over time, and your FP in the tank becomes more and more concentrated.

---

You are adding both gas and FP. The concentration of 12.7 gallons of gas with 3 oz of FP is just under 1 oz FP to 4 gallons gas. The concentration mathamatically will never reach 1 oz to 4 gallons.

Even if you fill 12 gallons and add 3 oz every time with exact accuracy the concentration will get closer and closer to 1 oz/4 gal, but never reach it.

Yes there will always be FP left behind in the tank, but there is gas left behind also. The math applied to the FP needs to be applied to the gas also. The only difficult part is how many oz to mix with 12.723 gallons of gas, but that is splitting a thin hair. My accuracy with measuring FP is within half an oz.

[ February 08, 2004, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: greencrew ]

 

[MolaKule]

The math is simple and here is an easy formula for determining amount of
FP with the fuel REPLACED or pure fuel in tank:

Amount of FP = (#gallonsX128)/640.

Take previous posting; 12.723 gallons.

12.723 x 128 oz = 1628.5 oz. Divide that by 640 as in 1628.5/640 = 2.5 oz of FP.

[ February 09, 2004, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[Shannow]

Get one of those littel additive bottles that a lot of the lead replacement additives come in.

Mark on it the exact quantity that you need for a full tank, then half, and quarters.

Tip the appropriate amount in, and fill up. Won't be far out.

The last litre bottle of additive that I bought (treats 650litres) lasted 6,500km - at 10km/l, so I'm pretty close.

 

[novadude]

Yes, the math is easy, and I fully understand the ratio thing. However, I WILL NOT worry about metering it out that closely. I use an old Lucas UCL 5.25 oz bottle (marked w/ 1 oz graduations by my permanent marker), and I fill it up and carry it in the car.

When it is 10 deg F, and I am pumping gas, I am not going to break out the graduated cylinder and calcultor. I am going to dump a "shot" from my bottle and "eyeball" my 1 oz marks to get it approximately close. In most cases, I end up dumping more than the required amount, which will allow for a slightly higher concentration if you do this enough times.

Also, I like to put it in the tank BEFORE adding gas, so it is usually a guessing game, since I do not always refuel at the exact same mileage, and the gauge is only accurate to +/- 1 gal, I am never sure how much gas it will take.

Guess I am just not anal enough to be bothered being that precise at the pumps.

quote:

---

Even if you fill 12 gallons and add 3 oz every time with exact accuracy the concentration will get closer and closer to 1 oz/4 gal, but never reach it.

---

That is EXACTLY it... the mixture will trend to a higher concentration than the recommended 1 oz / 5 gallons. Maybe the difference is not enough to hurt anything.

[ February 09, 2004, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: novadude ]

 

[MolaKule]

"However, I WILL NOT worry about metering it out that closely."

Neither do I. If the FP number comes out to 2.6, I just "round-up" and add 3 oz.

 

[joshwilson3]

All this won't matter soon anyways, cause the oil reserves in the Middle East is gonna dry up in 2010! Then WW3 will be upon us and Armageddon will be here.

Without oil, civilization as you know it will cease to exist and those who are more adapted to this lifestyle will be of the first to perish. Those like third world countries who live off the land will survive cause they are less adapted to the lifestyle of oil consumption. Kind of like a reverse Mother Nature effect. Those who are less adapted will survive!

 

[Chris B.]

No one can adapt to radiation fall out! Acctually I read that there is somewhere around 40 years of oil left in known reserves at the rate we use in now. I have read that if they want to destroy Alaska and drill for oil there is enough there to run the country for over 200 years!!!!!

[ February 16, 2004, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: Chris B. ]

 

[MolaKule]

All the more reason to research and Develop natural oils (esters) from plants.

The latest issue of Lube's and Greases had a pretty fair article on Biolubes.

BTW, these comments are more suited to the Off-Topic thread.

[ February 16, 2004, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]